Thread 622543 on danger/v/ Loading...

| Kenshi is one of the games that I can think of which is brutal, but fun if you're sadist/masochist

| Uhh. Define brutal?

| >>622544 Probably a game that doesn't hold your hand

| >>622544

Some of the really old fire emblem games. The most difficult one in the series handsdown is Thracia 776.

| >>622545
I mean, it can also mean visceral or visually violent or such?

Was gonna suggest Persona 5 on Hard diff and mainline Shin Megami Tensei games, but they're, you know, turn-based. More cerebral kind of brutal.

| >>622543 it's not that bad if you play cowardly/smartly. Avoid beak things until you can outrun them, always avoid battle, befriend ninja guild/shek/united city for potection, make your money through scavenging and you are golden.

I think party perma death JRPGs (without abusing save) is much more punishing than kenshi, example: Fire Emblem & Valkyrie Chronicles.

Alternatively, older Shin Megami Tensei games like Nocturne which has random encounter that can insta kill you.

| >>622570 >>622571
Speaking of permadeath JRPGs, the SaGa series also has that and doesn't hold your hand at all.

A lot of DRPGs are also pretty brutal, such as Wizardry or Elminage series. Etrian Odyssey is a bit more streamlined, but still pretty tough. Stranger of Sword City also has a kind of permadeath mechanic.

| Pathfinder: Kingmaker is still notorious for some asinine encounters on higher difficulties. Pathologic is more of an immersive sim but it's still one of the hardest games to sit through. There's this little proof-of-concept game called Exanima that has one of the weirdest and punishing combat systems I've ever seen. Gothic and all the derivatives can be punishing too. Outward's similar. Neverwinter Nights without heavy meta-gaming can knock your character off a pedestal real fast.

| Serpent in The Staglands is a niche game that will have you scratching your head most of the time. First three TES games along with Battlespire don't hold your hand all that much, although it's still a reach to call them "hard". Underrail and Wasteland were both pretty hard to me.

| Does Disgaea 1 count?
> If you accidentally kill a friendly unit, your right to see the true ending is forfeit until you start a new game

| Xenogears is forever hours long.
Ds was brtal ten years ago for the first time.
Earlier Ultima games.
Vargant story was insane, still have a rom somewhere.
Ff3 is not hard per se, but the playthrough i was wiped the dirty toilet floors with, bc i've had a single-sided party.

|

| Wizardry 4
Nethack (or virtually any roguelike).
Phantasy Star can be if you're going in blind.

| as much as I know divinity doesn't hold your hand and lets you do all sorts of shit you get in trouble for

| Star Traders: Frontiers is kinda brutal. But RPG is just one part of it- it's also an economy and galactic civilization/political intrigue simulator, so if the xenos don't kill you, or a bad roll against a pirate, then your former employer sending assassins after you might.

| >>624118
That sounds awesome! Not the type of game I'd play but the concept is really cool.

| LISA The Painful is not only difficult as as a game but devastating in terms of plot.

| >>624675 Outstanding game, it has a dedicated painful mode in which it limits your saves (which can be quite devastating for such a kind of game), it also has challenging fights and many optional bosses including but not limited to a man in a truck who calls himself Satan- you will also cry at some point (and you can add a lawyer with an Uzi who is also a fish to your party).

| Darkest Dungeon to a point. It kinda gets to a realm where it feels more like RNG being ass but I think it still fits.

| Not an RPG but Rain World absolutely does not hold your hand but is a masterpiece. If RPG is what you really want though then yeah as 624854 and I said, go LISA