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Is the US about to collapse?
| and so will the world..
| Naaaah. They always exaggerate those things. They are still better than 90 percent of the world and even if they had a big recession, they would most likely recover. The real question here is if they will be able to keep up with China, which I doubt, so in a few years China will most likely take the place of the big bully of the world
| US won't collapse in this way, it will be maybe a century or so when it does
What I can predict is a return to the old world order
| >>776143 Question is though, will China be able to sustain *their* continued growth? The concept of infinite growth being actually limited applies to China too, and with the spped they've been growing, I imagine their economy is as stable as their tofu dreg buildings.
| >>776233 That's a pretty important point no many people focus in.
Have you seen the natality rate of China? If they don't fix that problem soon, they are going to end up like Japan inthe year 2100, except it's gonna be way worse.
And considering that China based their success on their growing population, it's going to be a pretty important issue for them.
Also, the population of a country is connected to all its matters and areas.
It's all connected.
| >>776245 No. 3/4 of the world is considered developing. The USA is a developed country. To take an example, let's see Mexico. In most economic metrics, it's about average (HDI, GDP PPP per capita, internet penetration, industrialization, poverty rate by the WB). You could say this country is above average. And the USA thinks of it as a shitty third world country, yet they are better than probably 60% of the world (or even more). So yeah, there's that
| >>776233 Well, I think for sure it will slow down. Nevertheless, I do think it will still beat the USA sooner or later. By GDP PPP, China surpassed the USA in 2019, and thanks to COVID, they demonstrate that they are capable of beating the USA in it's own game (trading), so probably by 2030-2035, China will definitely surpass Murica
| Maybe raw trading numbers may look better for China, but how long will countries turn a blind eye to the small font attached to Chinese money. Many countries that planned to increase trade and had agreements with China ended up backing out. The us is much more comprehensive and likes to gift more money when trading.
In the end, if you work with China you know you're getting used. Depends on what type of trading you do, but most developed nations don't really like China.
| Culturally yes of course. But consider that the USA has things such as the massive armed forces, CIA, NSA, FEMA, etc. This faggy golem mutt will keep standing, it will become anything it has to in order to remain a hegemony. Remember that the true form of the US. political system is a militarized oligarchy, it's just pretending to be free in the meantime.
| It's one of the few stable countries in the world.
The only difference is their citizens have money aside from just survival funds.
They are just not happy with having an ok life, they want more.
Also, woke garbage is eating up any mentally unstable people unable to determine a person's worth outside of labels.
| >>776399 no, but I do remember their 6 months of protests that caused spikes in covid, increase in violence, roads block, citizen on citizen attacks, militia groups, autonomous zones with very high crime rates, burning of buildings, destruction of statues and acts of terror that escalated into police having to take more extreme messures to contain them which caused way more deaths and costs than the 4 people who died at the capitol.
| The USA as a nation already collapsed when they won cold war. Because since then there is no serious political opposition to the capitalist class anymore. And the capitalist class has no inherent interest in the nation. They may push nationalism from time to time in order to split the working class but in the end their businesses are always of global nature. Even the upcoming conflict between China and the USA is only a struggle between cultural different kind of capitalist clans.
| >>776433 ah yes cold war, definetly the best time to be alive, nothing better than to live in constant fear of a third world war with provocations from many countries right after the huge dissaster that was world war 2, nothing better to a capitalist society than the fear of being nuked at any day am I right?
| Ah and of course the CCP is not enough, they are not real communists, communism died with the USSR, real communism was when the government forced people to work at the jobs they created that costed a ridiculous amount of ressources just to attempt to win a dick measuring contest against the USA, thats how real communism works.
| >>776449 I knew it was bait, I just could't resist the urge to sas over them and troll back, it was so free this time.
| Yes,though not in the way you think. Collapse generally happens gradually. Whilst you can point to major events and turning points. Sort of like seeing a major crack form on a neglected foundation form. It may fall apart one day though you will see it coming years in advance.
| Yanks
| I fucking wish. This empire is so poorly managed I genuinely have a difficult time comprehending how its still standing given that there seems to be no direction at all from the highest levels of government. Covid pretty much revealed that to be true to everyone worldwide, even though its been obvious much longer to anyone paying attention.
| >>776461
The only reason why the US hasn't collapsed is that the rest of the world couldn't handle the aftermath. No matter how much they hate the US, the fact is that global capitalism would collapse without it as the US is the center of all financial and trade institutions worldwide.A collapse would mean a severe global depression which nobody wants.
| >>776462
At least the British were smart and ruled through cunning colonial exploitation. America rules simply out of necessity as the head of the slowly rotting neoliberal corpse of capitalism. Expect to see other nations propping America up through financial support as it slowly fails, hopelessly attempting to satiate the BPD child constantly threatening to implode and send the world into chaos. China already does this, they bailed out the US (and EU) after 2008 via debt purchase
| >>776464
Also gurls >>776263 please lets be real, China will not overtake the US any time soon. China is currently struggling to be a dominant power in Asia alone, much less the world stage. It would be Xi's greatest dream to maybe push the US out of Asia in 30 years.
| >>776466 Xi is considered the most powerful man, and the USA is struggling to be a dominant power in Latin America. More and more countries have preferred to trade with China rather than the USA. As for Asia, it's more than they hate China. However, it has expanded tremendously in Africa, West Asia, and to a lesser degree in Oceania, well, Latin America. So dethroning the USA is not something that crazy. Maybe not soon, but in 10 or 20 years it may and it definitely could.
| U.S. is losing its influence long term. The dollar is inflating and the current policies being implemented make other countries less willing to hold on to it as a reserve currency. The military is getting outpaced with developments. China and Russia are quickly shifting to fill in the void with recent developments/technology. If this continues, this will lead to a collapse. In other words, the house of bricks becomes a house of cards. Instability increases as time goes on.
| >>776729 Your thoughts are on point! But I want to ask you about the collapse itself, how do you think it will be the US collapse? Painful? How soon? Gradually?
| tbh, I am the collapse, and I am coming to America soon. GGs everyone.
-Collapse
| >>776739 In 10-20 years. Cycle starts off with gradual and slow economic problems with sudden drop off.
Inflation -> Hyperinflation
The trigger for hyperinflation is like a bank run. (This is painful for the majority of people, unless bets are hedged.)
Inflation acts like a measure to cause people to spend. -Politicians theory.
The people will spend to avoid major losses by hording money, however other countries will try to drop the dollar. (A.K.A. minimize dollar holdings.)
| Eventually what happens is since the economic spending is unsustainable, it triggers hyperinflation which triggers cycle for failed state.
The spending problem is like trying to make summer last all year by burning up everything in fall and winter, only for everything to be gone in spring.
China likely tries to seize assets in advanced or demand resources such as gas for repayment of national debts.
US is on the paths of empires, but those empires are long gone, failed years ago
| >>14117d doomsday scenario destroying the whole world, except the whole world is 'merica, Unoted bruv kingdom and maybe cucknada.
Honestly, fuck em, they deserve it as much as everyone
| >>776754
USA is the world's largest economy by nominal GDP and net wealth and the second-largest by purchasing power parity. It has the most technologically powerful economy in the world and its firms are at or near the forefront in technological advances, especially in artificial intelligence, computers, pharmaceuticals, and medical, aerospace, and military equipment.
| The nation's economy is fueled by abundant natural resources, a well-developed infrastructure, and high productivity. It has the seventh-highest total-estimated value of natural resources. Americans have the highest average household and employee income among OECD member states. It is the world's largest producer of petroleum and natural gas. It is the worlds second-largest manufacturer, representing a fifth of the global manufacturing output.
| The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion (1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion (852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion (723% of GDP) as of Q1 2014.
The U.S. public interest or "national debt" was $21.1 trillion in May 2018, just over 100% GDP. Only 15.2% of all US debt is owed to foreigners.
USA is not likely to enter any state of hyper-inflation any time soon.
| >>776756
Almost all hyperinflations have been caused by government budget deficits financed by currency creation. Hyperinflation is most often associated with stress to the government budget that make it difficult for the government to collect tax revenue, NOT because of some nation-wide "bank run trigger" or "peoples overconsumption of goods & services" BS.
| >China likely tries to seize assets in advanced or demand resources such as gas for repayment of national debts.
Uhh, national dept doesn't work this way??? Like, this is some pretty basic economics 101 stuff.
A national dept, also known as public interest, is just a name for the collective deficit and surpluses the government have over a set period of time.
| *Every* nation on earth has a dept because it's much easier, and stable, to regluate how much a state borrows than how much it gets in tax revenue.
| >>776832 How difficult is it for a global super power to collapse?
The Soviet Union did and this was less than 50 years after having been in a relatively strong position.(At the start of the Cold War.) We came extremely close to a collapse in 08. Just in the 1900's there has been dozens of major economic failures, if not hundreds. Even if you assume technology or buying power as protection against this, it matters not when a country becomes a failed state.
| What happens is even if you have the resources, you need to use them effectively. Recent policies have lowered efficiency overall. To compensate for reduced efficiency, we now have increased income amounts, but yet the increase only buys the same economically. This is visible inflation of currency.
Reserve currencies are built on the principles of being stable. Now when you have high inflation, it means you have unstable currency. And nobody wants unstable currency as a reserve.
| Monopoly money isn't worth anything outside of game. Currencies which other countries don't want to trade for, are like monopoly money outside of game.
If the U.S. is not a reserve currency, how much will it be worth?
The current decisions to reduce stability of the currency by increasing inflation... But when it reaches a tipping point, it flips from inflated currency to hyperinflated currency. History offered many lessons which are too costly to learn with time.
| >>776840 It's similar to a bank run, but not an actual bank run. Picture the stock market, but a single stock is being sold out in bulk. Nobody is buying that particular stock or wants to buy or trade for it. What will that stock be worth or how will it be valued?
Now think of the above, but this time with currencies in a global scale vs a stock market at national level.
What would you think the results would be?
| >>776843 By "national debt" I most refer to the amount we owe China and other countries.
What if China doesn't accept U.S. currency as payment, but requests actual resources instead or other currencies?
It can easily reason "the currency is not stable enough as an exchange medium" or simply use said debts to indirectly purchase business interests and simply export resources outward.
| >>776858
> We came extremely close to a collapse in 08.
Bullshit. The Financial crisis of 2007–2008 could never lead to a US-centric economic collapse for clear axiomatic reasons. The US have enough capital to bail out the financial institutions several times over, and they did, in order to prevent a collapse of the GLOBAL financial system.
| Even so, our global finacial system(which is not an economy) was never near-collapse either. You will *never* see any renowned economists make this claim.
>>776873
>What if China doesn't accept U.S. currency as payment, but requests actual resources instead or other currencies?
Again, the national dept doesn't work this way... You're talking as if you have absolutely no formal knowledge of the basics of economics whatsoever... and even less so on national economics. Wtf bruh?
| >>776448
It doesn't matter if in the USSR was really communism or not. What matters is that western capitalists accepted the challenge to their system. They had to accept social reforms within the capitalist system, which weren't necessary anymore as soon it was clear the USSR would collapse.
| >>776447
>ah yes cold war, definetly the best time to be alive, nothing better than to live in constant fear of a third world war with provocations from many countries
Have you been asleep the last decades? What you describe hasn't changed at all!
The so called "peace dividend" after cold war didn't last long. The situation is now the same. It's even worse, because the capitalist system itself has become ideologically and politically hegemonial - with all it's inherent faultiness.
| >>777078 but they werent trying to become better by seeing which society was the most prosperous and had better way of living, they were literally trying to flaunt their economy while also pointing nukes at each other while encouraging smaller countries to become divided and pick a side, it was in no way healthy progress for both them or the world.
| >>777079 its way more peaceful than back then, it changed, not a lot, but it did change, we arent at world peace but at least we dont have cold war 2.
we are more living in a cultural and digital warfare era and well, whatever costs less lives is a much better option than just nuking countries or opression by keeping a nuke pointed at them.
| >>777083
>but they werent trying to become better by seeing which society was the most prosperous and had better way of living
I disagree. I fact partially they were. Of course the ussr wasn't what it declared to be and both sides played dirty and, especially in their proxywars in smaller countries. But since the western/capitalist side "won" this battle, the whole idea of a "peaceful coexistence" of "two different poltical-economical systems" vanished.
| >>777085 but you have to look at the bigger picture, they were never trying to coexist in the first place, colda war was never about 2 systems coexisting, thats a vere romanticized view of it and sure, the "now" isnt perfect but its better than the "before", as this
Are you disliking the now because it is actually worse than before?
Or because its simply not what you want and you think that before they had an opportunity to reach it?
| >>777087
>Or because its simply not what you want and you think that before they had an opportunity to reach it?
This one. The end of cold war was a big chance. In in my opinion people failed to make the best of it. Currently it feels like human societies are falling back. The layer of civilization has become thin and porous once again.
| >>777090 honesty, I like it.
And yeah, I can agree with it, it was a great opportunity but it just wasnt meant to be, we cant reject moderny for a lost possibility of glory, thats regression, we have to work with what we have now and make the best of it.
| And yes, modern society as a whole is comming close to a new global colapse but its just a cycle in history and while there are ways to manage it, with the current ways of thinking its just not possible, and Im not saying to let it die, its more of accepting our limitations as humanity really likes to repeat the same mistakes on a collective and individual level.
| What is insteresting is how after every colapse we end up building it back a bit better each time.
| >>777092
>All Great World Events Happen Twice, Once As Tragedy And Secondly As A Farce!
I believe alot of stuff that happens isn't really necessary. And it hurts to see how people stumble from one idiocy into another while behaving like ignorant and unreflected douchebags. And it hurts even more to see how people who know and do better get sucked into this shitshow and have to suffer.
| >>777094 you say its a farce but then your next sentence is "I believe" rationalize what you are saying, yes it sucks that people can suffer without even deserving it but live is never about what people deserve in the first place, its not fair but live was never fair to begin with, I not saying ley it die, Im saying that because of of how history goes, thats the most logical possibility(in my head), humans arent logical and it can change, but nothing is saying it will.
| >>777095 its not a sacrifice, societies colapsing its a natural event, it happened time and time again, sure its a human made society but humans are still limited, if ants and bees can colapse their societies and be called natural why cant the same be said about us? Its not like we want to colapse, no one is maliciouly planning the colapse to make society better, its not a sacrifice because nobody wants it, but it just happens and we usually get back stronger from it.
| Do I want people to die? Hell no!
Can stop people from killing each other? Also no(on a collective level)
Can I or small group of people stop a collapse? No, it takes everyone to do it and people are stubborn.
Should we then proceed to get rid of the people who arent helping? Well then we enter an authoritarian dystopia and a lot of people will die anyway.
Do you get what Im saying? Or its just too much side stuff?
| >>777100
>societies colapsing its a natural event
I don't think so. I like the idea that humans are conscious beings who can build, maintain, reform and overthrow their societies with intention.
Naturalizing historical/political wrongdoing and crime is like a blank check for assholes.
| >>777103
>Should we then proceed to get rid of the people who arent helping?
Getting rid of uncooperative people isn't the only way how to deal with them. There are plenty (good and bad, more and less efficient) ways how to convince them to be cooperative.
| >>777107 well humans at the end of the day are animals we have limits and its has become more and more clear that we as a species are not super smart, we lack memory, long term thinking, overly emotional, we have a lot of possible individual flaws, etc, saying that we can prevent any disaster that we cause because we are not like other animals is like saying lobsters are immortal because they no like other animals, they sill die of old age despite having better dna conservation
| >>777109 like? Because if there were peaceful and still effective ways to convince people to do stuff they dont want we could get almost everyone to wear masks and vaccinate.
Dont overestimate the humanity, some stuff just isnt at our control and we take hundreds of years to learn and adapt to new things, dont expect us to prevent anything that takes either a few yrs or a thousands yrs to happen its either too fast or too slow for us.
| >>f9ef35
Have you never considered that misantropic views like yours may have a self-fullfying effect? Maybe try out to have a more positive view on humanity. And stop excusing people doing bad stuff by naturalizing it. Sounds pretty religious to me. "All bad stuff that happens can't be avoided because it's gods will."
| >>777110
Humans are exceptional from animals because they can be aware about those things. Some just don't want to, because it seems easier on the short term. On the long term they saw on the branch they sit on.
| >>777148 but Im not excusing it, Im pointing out the paterns, look at all the colapses in society and see if they were self-fullfying or completely unavoidable, and Im not making a call for inaction, I even said that we should not let it die.
I just think that its an inevitable cause due to my limited thinking and knowledge and you also must reconize it if you dont really have any ideas
| >>777150 but that still doesnt mean we cant nake the same mistakes again or the same mistakes animals do, we are far from perfect and thinking humans can solve any problem is very naive, history, biology and psychology say other wise, this isnt an excuse human mistakes its just an explanation.
| >>777075 Well, obviously you haven't read the books, nor the records, nor any of the statements.
See why we have all those "guarantees" by FDIC and why it covers all deposits up to 250k.
They also had to lock down and stop a whole dam bunch of transactions, since it was virtually a bank run on the largest scale.
Official statements say we were only hours away from a much worst collapse of the system.
| >>777077 Formal specifics aren't needed when something is obvious.
You can't run countries on thin air and you can't pay interest on debts with monopoly money. The day it becomes possible is the day we write a check to pay off all debts and interest without inflating the currency.
Otherwise your argument is simply rejecting the obvious over a technicality.
Let me know when monopoly money can pay off car loans, home loans and credit card debts.
| >>777182
Just because we *can* make/repeat mistakes doesn't mean we *have to* make/repeat them.
There are three kind of people:
The silly ones, the smart ones and the intelligent ones.
The silly ones repeat their mistakes.
The smart ones learn from their mistakes.
And the intelligent ones don't make mistakes, because they *think* before doing/saying stuff.
| >>777217 but Im not talking in *have to* Im just explaining it, like I said before, Im not excusing wrong doings.
It goes down like >>777094 said
>And it hurts even more to see how people who know and do better get sucked into this shitshow and have to suffer.
And saying that smart ones dont make mistakes because they think is too naive, thinking doesnt always give the best results and sometimes its not enough to reach an answer to more complex questions.
| Life is not fair and the neccesities and mistakes of others might cost our lives at any moment, thats how wars, crimes and colonization happens, thats why some people want profit at all costs, a new political system at all costs, genocide of a group at all costs etc.
Saying it all can be solved ifeveryone thinks is delusional because those things already require thinking to happen in the first place and it takes up a lot other possible issues beyond ignorance.
| Every important and influential person in history be it good or bad was smart, which already breaks the logic of societies only collapse because people dont think. because even people who always think do make mistakes and it can cause amazing or horrible things to happen, so many good or bad inventions came from mistakes and accidents too, thinking is not a universal good nor evil same goes for not thinking.
| I doubt it. We're running on worthless fiat, so no-matter how bad the gov messes up we'll ultimately be able to recover, even if the dollar becomes worth less in the end. Due to the stark about of control they have on the economy the best sign we'll get of a collapse is when things "start going back to normal", - that's when they're getting desperate. It'll eventually show a massive trickle in the value of our currency and exports, like what is happening now.
In short, yes, but no.
| I sure hope it does so you can all shut up about it
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| Share your thoughts g/u/rls. And your popcorn.