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is BLM word racistic?
| Nobosy on the ground actually thinks calling things which are black black is racist (maybe there are a few things that are but i can't think of any), it's just one way pr people see to try to appeal to liberals that won't even work
| Well in this context it has to do with day and night rather than race, even in black cultures they use the concept of black and white for good and evil since night is dark and scary but white bright and more welcoming
| It's empowering/seperating black race from others so you tell me.
| all nigggqs are g@y
| Still dunno why they start to give a shit about racism now and being sensitive pretentious fucks about saying the n-word on the world.
| Honestly i have feel that BLM haves a lot vandals.. idk well psychology what is beyond it, but i think that destroying statues or stealing isn't civilised form of protest.. and why black lives matter and not all lives matter? I feel that Asians are also experience bad things because of them race sometimes..
| >>37e24f People don't overnight decide to become vandals. They tried the legal way to change things for decades and were constantly gaslit by politicians. The Boston Tea Party was also an act of vandalism but an important part of the birth of democracy
| People who complain about blacklists or black chess figures, or who see it as a racial thing, are just dumb.
>>715667 Destroying statues is normal, and it's always been like that. And all lives matter, is like answering to someone asking for help to extinguish a fire in their house, "why? I have a house too". Asians undergo racism, but in the USA, they're not the ones getting killed for fun. And I'm not trying to say that it shouldn't be fixed, at all.
| >>715738 oh yes, but there it was about imperialistic attempts from uk, so it isn't much surprising.. what are they than trying about? change history? punish people who died decades ago? black übermensch? i'm little missing point of them protests as european..
>>715744 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_monuments_and_memorials_removed_during_the_George_Floyd_protests#Confederate_monuments but not in this size, or painting a.c.a.b., this is not civilised protest...
| >>715744 ...and sadly making bad image to black people. I don't understand speak about houses, but "stop house pyromania" sounds logical, and not, "stop burning my house". Is there some articles please what can source about killing other black people than Floyd?
| I feel like this debate invents problems where there are none.
| >>715783 no, if I were>>37e24f I would have put more posts and use other words to explain it, also my end conclusion would be something else
| >>715789 yep, racism is so mainstream that people will do anything to "solve racism" while ignoring the glaring issue of poverty and corruption wich is the main cause of racism nowadays
| No. "Word racistic" isn't even a thing. There isn't anything racist about "black lives matter".
Also saying "white lives matter" wouldn't be a racist expression on it's own, but regarding the historical and contemporary context (which is there) it is.
| >>715744
I don't see a problem with chess figures but I understand that the word "blacklist" regarding its meaning and the historical circumstances may lead to bad associations, just like "master and slave". I don't know if changing language is a good, an effective, the only, the best or even at all a way to get rid of such associations. In my opinion too much energy is wasted with debates about terminology. I don't get why people insist so fanatically on keeping/replacing words.
| >>715744
I agree with most of your post, but I think you underestimate a bit the hazardousness of widely spread racist tropes about asians, especially asian women.
| >>715805
>poverty and corruption wich is the main cause of racism nowadays
That's only one side of the coin. On the other hand racist ideologies prohibit the fight on poverty and corruption, because in racist theories corruption and poverty are race specific problems.
| >>715888 if we there is no poverty the racist ideologies wont even be a thing to begin with as they will havo basis to work with
| >>715884 There is a strong asian racism. But while asians are also considered to be often hard working and such (it is still based on racism, I know), the image of black people is often only limited to criminality. That's what makes them more likely to suffer police brutality.
And in any case, BLM is just like feminism. It's not about caring only about one "side", but about starting a fight in the hope of fixing all those sides.
| >>715947 Since every modern protest is labeled as violent then eff it, I support violence. Civil rights movement? Labeled as riots. Vietnam war protests? Labeled as violent. Tiananmen Square? Labeled riots. Hong Kong protests? Labeled as riots. BLM? Labeled as riots. Shocking
| >>715947 It's been without fighting for decades. The problem isn't fighting, the problem is that we reached a point where people refuse to change as long as you don't fight. And if you think that it's wrong, it means that you are part of the problem and you don't see that what is truly wrong, is the lack of action from people and governments.
The fighting is sad. But it's not wrong, as it is neither unjustified, or surprising. It's the logical reaction to inaction.
| >>716145 Screaming and throwing shit all over the problem is a great alternative to inaction. It is somewhat better, apathy is death after all, but we have, you know, more civilized ways of fixing societal problems. Like talking to people. Peaceful activism. Fares. Educational speeches. General acts of kindness and generosity aimed at fixing the problem and helping victims. Stuff that does not paint people you are trying to show in a better light as violent savages.
| >>716166 People have tried legal means of solving problems for decades. Politicians and courts just tell them to wait. Politicians don't enact policy based on kindness. They only change when people rage
| >>716170 dr king wants to know your location and he has a dream, you doing the opposite of his dream
| >>716197 During the civil rights movement, the march was labeled as a riot and Dr. King was labelled as a violent instigator. Same false labelling thing happening with BLM
| >>716246 with the difference being that there werent any rioters, looters, fanatic followers and people who would be saying stuff like white privilege wich creates more hate and racial segreagation
| The no justification for violence and they knew it at the time, they were patient and gave heir best wich gave them results in the long run
| >>716170 And we've seen stable improvements, no? Societal change is not happening overnight - but black people are treated a whole lot better than a mere decade ago. Politicians and courts won't do shit against change if the next generation of their colleagues will be people raised with the image of a civilized black men. Not as a weird shunned subculture - but fellow citizens. That could and will happen, but I doubt that riots, looting and cultish ways will speed this process up.
| >>716327 "We improved, we don't enslave them anymore, we are just heavily racist and killing them isn't so bad".
The problem is that racism still exists in a society where it is known to be stupid. The problem is that politicians and the law are doing nothing to tackle the problem directly.
The "good enough" excuse doesn't work because you can't justify racism, and saying that it's not as bad as before is just a way to defend the current racism.
| >>716347are you black? Do you talk to black people about it? Cuz you make it sound like there is a racist in every corner and that if you are born black you wont have anything good in life
| >>716347 Rape, arson, homicide and human trafficking exists in a society where it is known to be stupid. And politicians won't do shit about that, because their job - is to run an existing society, not to tailor it to your heart's content. They are managers, not social engineers. The job of solving those issues is a job of self-regulation. And so far BLM is the main force that actively separates "blacks" from "whites" and, hell, other "blacks".
| >>716382
That's a stupid view on politics, but sadly it's also a very popular one. This attitude is exactly what paves the way for totalitarianism and autocracy.
| As already mentioned in the other thread (opinions on BLM) I'd like to point out that all our beloved western freedoms and democracy weren't only achieved by shiny, noble and heroic people but also by peasant lynch mobs, murderers, criminals and even religious fundamentalists. They used ethically highly questionable methods to overcome the old rotten feudal order. Sorry for making your washed brains dirty, but historical accuracy is more important then convenience.
| Martin didnt need to use any dirty tatics to get his point around
| And using the arguement that of the revolutionaries used violence and questionable tatics so its ok to use them is so hipocrate when it comes from people who say gaslighting, lies and violence are right wing tatics, this only reinforce the point that both sides are wrong but people will do anything as long as in their perspective they are in the good side of history, bunch os idiots who cant use diplomacy on both sides have always existed
| >>716593 This has nothing to do with politics. There is a group of people that strives to fix inequality - but actually promotes it. That's it.
History is dirty, yes. Modern times are actually even more dirty. But I don't see how problems of modern people of color require violence, not aid. People that paved the way for modern conviniences had no one to turn to - except anonymous benefactors from other countries ofc. That's not the case now.
| racism is normal and natural
| >>716625
Nature sucks. Diseases (including viruses) and many poisons are "natural" too. No reason not to do something against them.
And "normal" only says something about distribution not about quality.
| >>716596
I'm sick of this hypocrite "argument". It's nothing but ad-hominem. The issue with right-wingers is that their goals suck and are rotten from the core. They want an entirely different society which I do want. Much of what they blame leftists for and call them hypocrites is inherent part of their ideology, not only as method but also as goal.
| >>716631 if you think that the ends justify the means than you no better than any authoritarian dictator out there who belives that they are right, you cant just force people to follow as you say because its for the better, it has to come from learning, understanding and free will, if you think you are right then teach us why, dont use the "right wing tatics", if the left was any better they would be better but they arent
| >>716631 the left uses all the same dirty tricks and Im tired of that condecending attitude, they are not better, their actions are the opposit of what they preach and so I wont approve then unless they have a good tatic, I want progress and equality but I dont want to force it uppon people like these movements are doing, we cant abuse power and jump over the law just because its for the better
| The moment we give these movement power they will start abusing it, thats just history in its work
| >>716634 No social change ever came about because someone asked really nicely one day. Politics is always a struggle and competion of ideologies. Taking the high ground is good on paper but most of the time the right will take any chance to kick people while their down.
| >>716654 so does the left, its in history that both sides are just waiting to get power and this sucks, if people were properly educated they would understand how dumb this left right thing is, we need to focus on character not ideals, anyone can preach few can take rational and proper actions to make these ideals well implemented and motivate people to do the better thing
| >>716845
>People didn't smash stores in the Vietnam war protest
Yeah, and those people didn't stop the vietnam war with their protest. They only increased the acceptance of drugs, rock music and a more open sexuality for western markets, which were still dominated by conservative retards until then. The hippies did not achieve anything that goes beyond the frame of capitalism. And even if Vietnam formerly "won" the war, and the USA "lost" it still was a success for the capitalists.
| The USA could get rid of their unemployed thrash, letting them murder civilians with advanced military technology. Many of those "Veterans" still are proud about this shit and don't get that they were foolish fools that got fooled.
The real socialist countries that supported vietnam sacrificed much more manpower and resources for their "victory" than the USA - not forgetting to mention Vietnam itself.
| It's so used over internet I find it offensive
| In Vietnam there are still landmines laying around, placed by US-Pioneers and the USA paid 0 reparations and no one of the responsible political and military leaders in the USA were brought before international (or any) courts and got trials about their crimes.
However, back to topic:
>>716845
Were did you get that BLM organizators called people to smash stores? I call this a right-winged propaganda lie.
| >>716877
I did not miss anything. I wasn't the one brought in anti-vietnam war protests and the general ethical question regarding violence and protests into this discussion. I just pointed out my opinion on it.
Of course both of those topics have few to do with current BLM protests, it's >>43ef9d who created this association which, as I also finally stated, is nothing but a trumpster propaganda lie.
| >>716878 so who are the ones smashing stores in the blm protests, if not the protestors? Why are the protestors not moving aways when the violence or looting starts? Why are some people cheering for that destruction in the protests? If those things happen in the protests then which group is organizing it? If its not blm, who is it?
| It cant be any far right militia since the fucking FBI was investigating and they found no named groups, the arrested people keep saying that they are either antifa or blm, so like are antifa invading and doing starting shit in blm protests or what? If they cant find who is causing the riots then then they are the ones organizing the riots, thats the process of elimination
| >>716882
>so who are the ones smashing stores in the blm protests, if not the protestors?
Yes, tell me. Who are they and how many. I want numbers, statistics and sources that validate your accusation that BLM is about smashing stores, looting and violence in the first place. In my impression the vast majority of BLM protests were peaceful. For the rest there are more likely explanations but BLM being a violent movement.
| >>716883
There are logical doubts that the police, including the FBI can be trusted as a neutral actor in this situation. I mean they are in the centre of criticism by BLM.
Additionally it's not very unlikely that there may be apolitical criminals that use the opportunity of the situation. And at this point i like to mention: a situation that's not initially caused by BLM but by massive failure in and by the police.
| I honestly don't know what OP originally wanted to know. What the hell is "word racistic"? And why some g/u/ls suddenly started discussing pro-violence or anti-violence during demonstrations? I'm confused. Please help me.
| >>717216 op wanted to now if the usage of black in context of things like black magic, black market etc was racist and how it impacted the blm movement, the conversatio later evolved into the blm movement and the rest is history
| >>717217
Well, I would say it depends on the context and the people who are directly affected by it. And in the context of BLM, a anti-racism movement, the word "black" of course isn't meant in a racist way. And I'm also pretty sure, that there aren't any black people who feel insulted in a racist way by BLM - even if they're apolitical or opposed to BLM for other reasons.
| Imagine having nothing better to do than arguing about shit that's common sense
| >>717572
There is no common sense anymore. People are divided and many believe in stupid conspiracy theories to explain the failures of a flawed system they don't understand because they aren't meant to do so.
| >>717572 If it was common sense people wouldn't be arguing about it.
Moreover, common sense is crap.
| black lives don't matter
| >>718382 no, it's isn't what i wanted to said.. just i feel that this positive discrimination will lead to paradox situation.. on black lives matters, on yellow, white, red, pink anything.. doesn't depends on color. but statue vandalisms is really sad kind of protest, art shouldn't be destroyed..
| >>718386
>but statue vandalisms
What do you suggest to do with statues that glorify racist assholes instead?
| >>718343
BLM is an international movement with many different organizations taking part. So behind BLM are organisators but it's also decentralized which made it grow fast but also vulnerable to free riders.
| >>718431 these statues was usually made for them role or results in these times.. no, churchill statue wasn't made for glorifying racism but for his role in wwii..
| >>718431 do some actual research to see if these statues actually glorify racist assholes, there are a lot of historical context and reasons as to why those statues were built in the first place, these people did something to deserve these statues in the first place and erasing that aspect of history, trough mob rule vandalism at that, is wrong. Some of these statues were made because black people wanted them there
| >>718437 Statues aren't about historical context. If you keep a statue now (except in a museum or so), it means that you consider what the person represents to be a model to follow in today's society. Historical context is in books, and you don't erase history by removing statues. However, you remove the crap that they encourage.
It was probably said before, but do you think we should keep statues of hitler in thhe streets? Because I don't.
| >>718452 no? and what about castles or bridges? and what is difference if is statue in museum or public park, museum have monopoly for "controversial" statues or so?
Sorry, but this argument sounds like we should burn books, because we have wikipedia. Statues always was for reminding past.
Honestly, i would keep statue of Hitler, reductio ad Hitlerum?
| >>718455 Statues represent something, bridges don't. As for castles, it's hard to put them in a museum.
Statues are made to show respect towards the person. A statue of hitler means you respect him. And it's different in a museum, because the symbol is different.
Statues glorify individuals. Books don't necessarily do the same. But just as for the statues, I don't think we should keep on selling Mein Kampf, however it can be kept in museums.
Keeping history, vs keeping the symbols.
| >>718458 if the statues could have been moved to museums then why would the people trash and burn them? Why would you defend such an act? Also even if these people did something bad, there is a lot of context and reasons as to what was the good thing they did that overwrote they bad deeds.
What they did is vandalism and thats a crime, there were better options and they choose the worst for no reason
| >>718458 what about pyramids? or some building made by slaves? let's explode them? ^^
I don't need support Hitler, for keep Hitler statue, same as grave doesn't mean that am i wisheddead to this person. I never pay respect to people who i doesn't care. glorifying individuals, can, but they are more like memory. If you see statue of Hitler, you can learn that he shouldn't be here again. I have Mein Kampf home [1/2]
| i was also reading complete manifest from new zealand, the great replacement, and no, it's doesn't making from me a terrorist, or it's do? destroying of statues really doesn't educating you [2/2]
| >>718504 The statues could have been moved, and have been destroyed because the governments decided to keep them outside instead. People can't just grab a statue and bring it to a museum.
Pyramids are the same as castles. Too big for museums. And they weren't built by slaves btw.
And having such books, while saying you'd keep statues of Hitler, gives you a dubious profile. You don't need any of those to remember the past; they're usually used to, again, glorify it.
| Ask how many people know who Hitler was, and how many people saw a statue of him, and you'll see that statues are unnecessary for that. Same as having mein kampf.
| >>718545 sounds like an excuse to justify vandalism, wich is a crime, just because the governament didnt want to move them doesnt mean it gives people the right to commit a crime and cause damages, its just a freaking statue but people are so crazy about fighting racism that they will trash and destroy anyone or anything that some ramdom dude says its racist, that isnt good nor healthy, these people need to relax, crimes are bad and there are better ways to deal with this
| >>718545 now i did notice, i'm honestly sorry about slavery about pyramids, i was missed it with colloseum which was.. than this we can? if it will calm you, i wasn't reading Mein Kampf yet, but i plan to, and i don't mind say it, i feel sad that interesting about controversial characters of history is automatically meaning that i must being a supporter of this person. Hitler was important person in WWII, don't interest about this person only because was a nazi is really sad, [1/3]
| you should really something do with your black and white vision. And throwing my arguments just because i interest about Hitler, is also sad argumental fault, please stay objective, and not subjective. when are you taking selfie with statue, are you always glorifying and have respect to this person? If you do, you should destroy yourself, and not a statue. [2/3]
| cancel culture doesn't making art really, it's same crime as nacism, do you know that nazis also was burning books what was again them ideology? [3/3]
| People who defend these things do be hipocrate, first they claim that these movents didnt do anything wrong and when you show them that they do they try to justify crimes, and when you call them out for behaving like nazis they will start deviating and trying explain nazism and how different and better they are
| Wow this thread is still going strong.
| >>718615 My problem with mein kampf is that there's a difference between reading it, and keeping a copy of it. The problem isn't being interested about history, but keeping things that aren't that historically meaningful (because reading this book won't give more understanding that reading studies made by historians) while having strong symbolism about something not exactly good.
| For the statues, it's completely different from burning books. Burning books is about destroying knowledge, erasing history, while destroying statues is about destroying symbols. And of course it would be better to move the statues to a museum, and to do everything peacefully. But considering the lack of reactivity from governments,I can't really nlame people who just can't stand it anymore. At least in countries that pretend to be democracies, which is basically all democracies.
| So no, I'm not for violence and destruction, all I'm saying is that in the current context, it's normal. Which doesn't mean it is good, or what we should want.
As for the selfie, I wouldn't take one with a statue that symbolises something I disagree with.
| >>f551ef while I can see your intentions I still think that we shouldnt destroy symbols, not only its a narrow minded way to look at history but accentuates hate and undermines the good things that heppened, you cant destroy a symbol just cuz oh he had slaves, the same person also fought for ending slavery anda bunch of other things that helped society, nobody builds statues cuz they wanna remind people of the bad part of history, there is context to that
| If you break a symbol you also sorta of erase the meaning of the symble and that is violence against a piece of history, there is no valid justification especially when we look at the cases in the protests, these people destroyed symbols that have nothing to do with racism or even anti racism symbols, they read 2 or 3 out of context lines on wikipedia and then go trash a historical legacy, if they had actually did their research they wouldnt feel the need to destroy, its all dumb
| I support crime
| >>718436
>churchill statue wasn't made for glorifying racism but for his role in wwii..
Being a conservative idiot who believed "the nazis aren't that bad, communists are more evil" until they attacked poland, france and the uk and started a genocide against people they considered as "subhumans"? I dunno why to glorify a dude with veeeery late insight. Churchill is overrated.
| >>718758
>If you break a symbol you also sorta of erase the meaning of the symble
Yes. And destroying a symbol for racism is about destroying racism.
>violence against a piece of history
It's violence against history to keep symbols of racism in public areas.
>there is no valid justification
No. You're wrong. There is enough and very valid justification.
| >>719130 so dumb, you dont fight racism by making people forget racism you idiot, it just makes racism loose its meaning and make it harder for the general population to see, its just book burning but to a statues
| >>719129 he his overrated but if they keep a statue of him then this means he did something to have it, what i represents doesnt matter, its about what it tells, thats how history and science works
| >>719128 yes because you like or not, its something that we need to remember for both good and bad reasons
| You dont fight racism by erasing the past you do it by securing the future, unless you have a time machine.
| >>719135
Removing a statue that glorifies a racist doesn't make people forget about racism. Either you are dumb or a racist troll.
| >>719407 but these statues arent about glorofying racism, go study some history before trashing historical monuments, or even better dont destroy any historical monument
| >>736fbe
You don't understand what statues and monuments are meant for and how they are recieved by most people. Also your comparison with books is ridicolous. They store and distribute information in a much more detailed, complex and abstract way than statues do. And if you find a text stupid you are free to write another text referring to that book.
Statues/monuments are symbols that usually are meant to remember people, their work or events - often in a glorifying way.
| >>719408
If a statue glorifies a person that was known for holding or even promoting racist views then it glorifies racism. Because it says: Hey, racism isn't bad at all. You can become popular, successful and celebrated, even if you are a racist.
| And we're not talking about statues of people who accidentally once said/wrote something stupid because they couldn't have known it better at their time. I mean read this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_views_of_Winston_Churchill
This guy was an asshole who would have easily cooperated with the nazis if they hadn't suprisingly "allied" with the ussr.
| >>e07f94 you are the one who doesnt seem to know about what statues represent and are meant for.
By your logic any person who did something bad in any point in space and time despite historical context, culture and location should be only remembered as a monster
| And even if the person was bad overall its important for for people to remember and know who they are, since we dont learn from just the good things in history.
| >>719416
So any people who aren't glorified through statues are only remembered as monsters to you?
| >>719419
But that's not how those statues work. They don't make people remember about who the portrayed person was. They make them remember in a way they were intentionally designed.
| >>719422 you are repeating the same arguement again, please bring new info. Also hell no! The statues are designed to portray a persons figure and make their image relvant trought time, its literally to remember the person, there is no conspiracy theory of making people racist and change the colective subconsions
| >>719426
learn to think logically. What I wrote here >>719421 is exactly the implication of what you wrote there>>719416 .
| regarding the context of tearing down statues of people who did and/or said racist stuff.
| *continously and at a time it already was known to be stupid
| >>719427 you pulled that implication from thin air, that the last thing anybody would think from what I said.
| >>719429 ugh you really dont know how culture works and how it changes trough time if you think that, well there is nothing worth learn from you.
| And you probably will try to find any excuse to twist my words so Im not doing it
| >>719432
There is a difference in "not knowing how culture works" and not accepting how certain people want it to work.
| >>719433
I did not twist anything. Your words are twisted on their own, because the thoughts behind it are twisted.
| Your arguments did not convince me at all why we should keep racist/racism glorifying statues in public places. People don't learn much from history anyways. I don't get how they should learn something positive about it by watching racist monuments.
| >>719435 you are fooling yourself on that one, just shows your refusal to learn and undertstand people, even if that "implication"( its more of a strawman you used ) was correct my intention was another and your failiure to accept my intention just shows how stubborn you are
| >>719438 because you still think that these statues were made to glorify racism, and if you are not willing to challange that perception then nothing I say will allow you to see the other side of that discussion.
So good night.
| >>719438 and if you wanna know what people could learn from racist statues then think about a lesson of things you shouldnt do in your life duh. Remembering bad things is good for a society since it reminds them of what not to do, this is why nazism is basically non existent in germany
This thread is permanently archived
| *Reference to Twitter, BBC, YT AI and so..
If should words like "blacklist", "black mark", or even black figures in chess problem, does it mean that we should ban also BLM? because is there "Black" word. i mean, shouldn't we saying B-Word lives matter or something like this?