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Punch nazis
| Hell yeah, Nazi scum can fuck off!
| Good post op
| Q ('-'Q
| Fuck off commies
| >>70043 this app was seized by the the People's Council
Fuck off back to 4chan or get free ticket to gulag
| bash
| Krautchan.net
| Commies and Nazis can both fuck off, far as I'm concerned
| >>70458
Nice centrist meme
Did you know most of the "casualties of communisn" were actually just Nazis killed by "commies"?
| >>70516
>The "lel centrism meme"
As if Nazism and Communism are the only two options? Do you honestly think you and your side are the "good guys" and everyone who disagrees with you is a Nazi or a fence sitter? I spit on all forms of collectivism, but I'm no centrist.
Also let me go check with Ukraine really quick about that last claim.
| >>70553
I'm not a communist, I just like to make fun of people who feel the need to bitch about communists whenever nazis come up.
| >>70635
Fair, I usually wouldn't, but it seemed like it was a fair point considering we were seized by the people's council
| Every ex-commie country i've ever been to has been a shithole
| >punching people because of opinion
What a nazi thing to do.
| Id prefer "punch" nazism out of peoples head. Violence is always the last and worst option.
| >>70900
Most of the ex communist countries were better when they had a communist agenda. Most shithole countries in these days are capitalist countries with a big trend in becoming worse everyday and driving mankind to the edge of another great war.
| >>70900
Also, that was because stalin destroyed every country he got his authoritarian trash hands on to build up Moscow. Democratic Socialism, Social Democracies, Anarcho Communism or even having a decent govt official with the original idea for the popular soviet implemented could have solved this, but they instead chose to neocolonialize and exploit lesser developed nations under the guise of economic support, much like how modern diamond mining corporations work.
| Classical Fascists hate Nazis
| Hot Centrist Take: Punch Nazis, but molest Commies so it's all fair
| Centrists ain't shit and Nazis can fucking choke
| >>71271
I hear this argument all the time, but in every one of these countries the transition from communism to a capitalist market economy happened smoother and more naturally with wayyyy less deaths than the transition to a communist one they earlier undertook. It's almost as if any regime change is going to at first create some amount of instability.
| communism fucked up eastern europe and there was only peace during that era because everyone hated the Soviets more than each other. the instability after the ussr fell was a result of underlying multigenerational ethnic and regional hostilities. anyone who thinks modern capitalism should be replaced by communism of any form has never known suffering or consequences.
| I hate capitalism and I am fascist. We need to bring collectivist society and bring humanity to the feature crying and screaming if we have to.
| *future
| >>71886
Authoritarianism and mismanagement destroyed eastern Europe. That region has always been a hotbed of violence anyways. Pre ww1 Chancellor Otto Von Bismark said a big fucking war would happen because those dumbasses are always at each others throats.
| Communism : greatest death toll in history, almost exclusively all its own people.
| Haven't Va-11 Hall-a told you about how screwed up society is? Well at least this board does.
| Reminder that Anarchism is the most cyb ideology
| >>72975
Cyberpunk is the metanarrative that that exemplified capitalism inherent flaws and how they compound over time. Its also supposed to warn the people about corporatism and the power of a monetary hierarchy. Cyb isn't just anarchist, its anarcho communist and I think that's just neat.
| >>73327 It shows a future where social degeneracy has reached untold levels of bad, while people are enslaved via capitalism, all promoted by a misguided trust in technology that now keeps everybody under watchful eyes of big brother, so this is fascist if you asked me.
| Fascism is agains't capitalism
| >>73327
Cyberpunk is the metanarrative that exemplified government and corporate collisions flaws, but small scale capitalism (i.e. the black market) shines forth as a glimmering spark of progress and freedom
| Honestly though to be less shitposty, I think people stop too soon when they see cyberpunk as purely a critique of capitalism when I could paint an exactly cyberpunk without corporations, but with a negligent authoritarian government. To me cyberpunk serves more as an effective reminder about human nature and an example that technology can't save us from the realities of being mortal beings living in a world with scarcity
| >>74096
Mate you can't say you cant punch Nazis.
We had a whole war about this. The whole world was involved. I thought that established that Nazism shouldn't be tolerated because they're a bunch of bigoted fucks that generally speaking are fairly irredeemable.
| >>73777 That is what I meant by it being a fascist tale, because it shows what our near future will be like if capitalism rules.
| FASCISM IS NOT NAZISM
| Nazis can all die as far as I care
| Communists are annoying as well
| >>74993
Nazis were the posterboys of fascism but you keep saying they're dofferent and separate. An authoritarian regime that censors information is fascist, a totalitarian state is fascist, a nation that declares an entire ethnicity, preference of relationahip and religion an enemy of the state is fascist. Nazis did all of that but you're going to tell me otherwise? Piss off.
| >>74345
Yeah we had a war when Nazis were a big military organization running death camps. Flying Nazi flags and invading France. When a guy in New York City shaves his head and says he likes Pepe the meme frog you can't just beat the shit out of him it's not the same thing. The more violent you act towards fake Nazis the more justified they will feel for perpetuating future acts of violence
| Oh boy, here we go again.
| >>74549
They used shitty arguments like that too iirc. Normally if it weren't about Max is and fascists i would agree, but they've already proved themselves to be the scum of the earth. Even authoritarian dickheads like stalin ended up kicking his ass and he was arguably worse
| Nazis*
| If socialist countries are so great, why do they rely on the American military for protection? Why is it there were so many people who died under Socialism compared to Capitalism? Why has it taken so long to bring back FOOLY COOLY?! WTf! Where the fuck are your parents?!
| >>75439
More people have died under capitalism. It ascended to power drenched in the blood of its enemies, in fact.
| This is why we should turn to transhumanism and uploaded ourselvea into the servers.
| >>75453
Someone who at first appearance may be a Nazi (racist, aggressive, attending a protest) but they have yet to actually commit a serious verbal or physical attack against a minority person.
Ex: there's a dude sitting down on the corner of a city block, he has a Nazi flag next to his chair and is sitting silently next to it. You stomp his ass only to discover he's just some random guy who wanted cheap attention to be funny
| punch trans people and gay faggots aswell
| >punching anyone
Guys, if you punch your enemies - they win.
| >>76758
Originally skinheads were no Nazis at all. Skinhead subculture and Nazim came in contact in England during the so called "Falkland-War".
| >>74393
But Facism goes pretty well along with nazism. Facists are more tolerated by the bourgeois class and they fight along with them if its about purging communists and socialists. Nazism is just a special type of facism, as facism is one end-state of captalism.
| >>77232 Let me, a nazi break some of your misconceptions there mr commie: nazism is independant from italian fascism, but follows the similar idea of fascism, and, we HATE capitalism, more so than communism infact, BUT, we believen in hierarchy, not the free market.
| >>75439
It is a bit like this. There is a street with shops. One day a couple of guys with weapons show up at those and tell them they need protection from thugs and burglars, for a fee. They prove it by pointing out those shops that refuse to pay and a bit later indeed were vandalised and looted during the nights. These guys run the weapons shop.
And the street is always safe from thugs and looters now, because the guys with the guns protect the other shops from the bad guys.
| Anyone who assults someone due a political veiw is a faggot, even if the victim is 'le ebil bad nazi man' or 'le ebil bad communist man'. You're still a faggot for beating up someone who disagrees with you.
| Heirarchy and capitalism is fucking shit, fascism even more so. Fuck your centrism shit, if you're going to be silent when some dickhead wants to make a "peaceful ethnic cleansing" and a eurocentric ethnostate at the cost of everyone else who lives there, you should probably get punched too.
| >>78282
I have yet to be convinced that hierarchy is 1) avoidable and 2) innately bad. Hierarchy will naturally emerge in any society. Don't get me wrong, I'm a monarchist, I don't want any government enforced hierarchy. But capitalism has done more good in tearing down the hierarchy of thousands of years of nobility in the past 300 then any peasant revolt before.
| *minarchist
Bad typo.
| >>78282
Also >muh centrism meme again
Seriously everytime someone accuses someone of "centrism" I lose more faith in political discourse.
| >>78562
Most political uneducated aren't centrist though. They will chose on political party, usually who their friends or parents vote for, and stick with them for a whole period of their lives (i.e. registered Democrats of Republicans.) To actually be able to liable yourself a centrist requires at least some work to decide that you can take what you consider from both sides. This is regardless of the fact though that when radicals accuse someone of centrism they usually aren't.
| >>78552 The only thing that pisses me off more than people calling nazism and fascism "radical centrism", is>"MUH FASCISM IS 3RD POSISTION" fags.
| >>78567
I'm still processing that myself, I was only responding to anons assertion on hierarchy. The thing is the world is still getting better, standard of living wise and contrary to "common wisdom", and it's happening as capitalism continues. Even Scandinavian countries, loved for their social policies, have great environments for capitalists to grow their businesses. But like I said, I'm still learning to make my mind up.
| Fascism is third position that's exactly what corporatism/national syndicalism is about
| >>78575
I mean it happens more often that people call a liberal a centrist, which still annoys me, anytime someone who isn't your enemy but disagrees with you too is labelled a dance sitter it makes it look like the implied thinks he's the "good guy" in an action movie.
| *fence
| >>78574 that's a very American centric view.
All over the world people will tell you that radicals suck and that they are moderate centrists because you need to go the middle way to archive happiness for everyone. (Radical just means to tackle the problem on the root)
>>78582 just look at the real wages in the US, they are stagnant since the 60's. Yeah there is more wealth, but it's just going to the top 10% ( aka the superrich )
| >>78602 nah He thinks that class struggle exists but that the workers just need the right representation to allow her country to succeed. Like all classes work together for the success of the country. This idea comes from Marxists thinkers originally funny enough.
But irl it showed to not work, and just be a continuation of Capitalism, without any gains for the working classm
| >>78661
To explain, I'm not American, but I use the parties as an example. A German example would be lifelong CDU or FDP voters. My point is that true centrists are a least putting thought into their positions, but a party voter may not.
And w/ regard to the real wages thing. My understanding is that real wages is a relatively poorly defined concept and hard to track, but fair there is a long period of history here with seemingly no growth; but outside us other results are seen
| Party voters are not interesting even for their own parties. They are already canned meat, their votes are already secured. It is always the centrists and those who appear not convinced to swing either way the ones who are targeted. The campains tout and boast 'come to us because we are good and will do such and such' not for their followers, but for those without affiliation. The follower sheep are already herded, securely tamed and brainwashed. They can wait.
| God i wanna punch a nazi
| Meh tbh if I saw a Nazi I'd prbs just walk away...
| >>78669 First of all, let the man speak for himself. Second of all, you are obviously a commie who has no idea what fascism, nazism, and more actually works in any sense, so please, do not try to talk about something you do not know about.
| Commies are annoying but Nazis are actually evil, dangerous people, js.
| niggers
| Fite me fgt
| anyways punch nazis
| Insert a "To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Communism/Fascism" meme here.
| I have never seen such pure unadulterated mental retardation in a single thread before.
congratz guys.
| Hitler did nothing wrong :^)
| >>83380 he did many things very wrong. Betrayed his own party and people.
But his last act was a good act.
Everyone believing in Hitler should follow their Fuehrer.
| Punching nazis should be something they teach in school to be quite honest
| If it's for fucking commies in the ass, I'll side even with nazis.
| All humans should just die, that would solve all our problems...
| >>83566
As if you wouldnt enjoy comunal sex. You call those orgies and you eat your liver to be in one, but you cant because cant wrap your mind around how some resource can belong to society as opposed to the individual.
| >>83934
Except each individual still possesses their body in an orgy, and consents to share it for a certain amount of time
Commies can never get around the whole human autonomy thing it seems
| (and for that matter Nazi's can't either)
| That is why you never will be in an orgy, no matter what. You still dont realise that in an orgy your body belongs to all there just as theirs belong to you as well.
You speak of ideological posession and bring anatomy in the analogy while wielding the word Commie like a weapon.
Go home kid, you're still too young for certain things.
| Why punch when you can shoot them on sight?
>inb4 no-gun libtard pussies
| commies stole my family's property.
| >>84239
Wait, but you still have to consent to join the orgy (under moral circumstances) in the first place, even if we accept your argument. However communism and communists never offer that opportunity to a society where they take over; the ability to opt out. I don't care if you're a communist, just leave me and others alone and start a commune.
If you think me calling you what you are is wielding a weapon, perhaps that should tell you something.
| Punch nazis! (`⌒*)O-(`⌒´Q)
| >>84573
Kek
Did ya ever consent being born in your life? Into your family circumstances? OR COUNTRY WITH HER FORM OF GOVERNMENT?
When the majority of a country consents they can change their form of government, if you don't like it you can try to start a counter revolution or leave the country.
ps: read about the communists of Spain. You could be part of the decision making or you could get some land to grow your food on and weren't allowed to exploit people. They left you alone.
| >>84681
No one consents to being born but history has been the struggle of the individual to emmancipate themselves from the collective. If you truly believe the the majority makes right then you are saying that anything is possible and anything is moral, and further you are entirely missing my point by saying I can just leave. Communists argue and have always functioned to never allow doctors, the educated, or any dissenter, to leave their workers dictatorship.
| Also the Spanish Republic was left leaning, not communist. It was founded by anti-apartheid who aimed to transition Spain to a democratic system, not by communists.
| *anti-monarchists
fuck typos
| Remember democracy is only a convenient shortcut in lieu of consensus; a democratic decision does not mean it is right and the amount of decision that are valid democratic decisions are remarkably limited.
| >>84573
You are implying that capitalism does give a way out of itself and it gives people choice? Of all society orders that have existed or will exist, you found capitalism the one that allows choice?
Like I said, you're too young for lot of things. Carry on, and refrain yourself from unneded snide comments in the future. There is a lot you still have to learn.
| >>84770
Obviously you're not intending to argue or debate so much as call me a kid and put words in my mouth. Fair enough; it's you're right.
| >>84742
You legit don't know about Communism. Communism isn't about the majority being right. (Some people like ancoms think like that, but that's not the core of communism.)
Most communist agree with you. Even Lenin said "There is no free Collective without free Individuals and there are no free Individuals without a free collective."
That's why there things like democratic centralism. Or the idea of councils. Or the idea of right representation. Or the idea of less representation
| >>85045 is better. Or the idea that more is better.
Every communist has to look at the material conditions of their country and time. Has to look at their own culture and infuse it with communism.
It's not about building USSR's everywhere, or a Cuba for everyone. It's about archiving a freer Society who profit from the wealth of their country. To give them real power over their lives. Like yes we have freedom of travel in the west, you just need the money to leave. And don't come
| >>85049 with the USSR now. They made their country more free. There wasn't democracy before, it was a Tsarist Dictatorship. They didn't had rights or power. The communists came and implemented more. But not from 0-100, because they needed a more authoritarian style of governance for their material conditions. They were in war against the whites (counter revolutionary), they betrayed the anarchists (or Trotsky did [people still hate him for that and other things]), they fought
| >>85052 against the fascist (yes they were allied before. But only because the West didn't wanted to Allie with the USSR and attack the third Reich. That's the only reason why they were allied), they lost the most people in the second wolrd war (good people, while still killing the most German and Japanese troops and basically winning the war for the allies. All the german troops were send to the east.). And then they needed to protect their country from an anti communist sentiment
| >>85059 while preparing for the next war. Things weren't perfect, but there were so many good things for the people (and of course still bad things which we can analyse).
They were a feudal country on the brink of collapse, and after 50 years the whole country was industrialised and they were the first country in space. So fuck your "didn't allow educated people."
Also Cuba has a the first vaccine against lung cancer, so fuck your "didn't allow doctor".
And did you know that China
| >>85068 has the most politicians who graduated in STEM fields? So fuck your "didn't allow educated people" a second time.
>>84745
Also Revolutionary Cataliona was not left leaning but Anarcho-communist. The CNT (the dominant Labour Union) called themself National Conferdarion of LABOR, which were closely associated with the FAI (Iberian ANARICHST Federation). The General Workers Union, the workers Party of Marxist Unification, and the Unified Socialist Party of Catalonia (which
| >>85045
My comment about the majority making right was in response to the previous poster saying that a simple majority of a population has the right to change ones country. It wasn't meant to represent anything beyond that.
My point is that level of authority that can actually be granted to the mob is far limited than he would let on, which again we seem to agree with, in good faith.
| >>85068
I'm just pointing out some more misunderstanding, they didn't allow educated people to leave or have the free choice to leave is my point. Even today socialists argue society has a duty to hold doctors at the mobs pleasure.
Remember that at all times our discussion was focused on human autonomy.
| >>85085 included the Communist Party of Catalonia) were also involved.
The Socialist rule began in 1936, RESULTING IN THE WORKERS CONTROL OF THE MEANS OF PRODUCTION AND LANDS (=FUCKING SOCIALISM [the stage after Capitalism and before communism] ARCHIVED)
now counter this bitch.
Or read this, and read about communism and Socialism, and never stop criticizing other Communists but maybe become yourself a Communist <3 (even a Socialist would be dank)
| >>85095
But only the rich can use "their right to leave". The rest needs to save enough money for a little vacation or enough wealth to emigrate without any hustle.
Like a today's Socialism which would come out of a western countrie, such things just couldn't happen. Back then ok, you created some space of freedom where there was none. But now we have even more potential freedom. Like then people could probably leave even easier, for better and longer vacations. Because every time-
| Now were getting to the point where we're treading closer to debates about the merits of communism in general and detailing the thread, but the improvements to the USSR came at the expense of millions of lives directly. They were right to throw off the yoke of the Tzars but conditions had imrpov through economic, capitalist, liberalization in the West from similar conditions as well.
| >>85101 communists came to power they created more freedom as there was before. You have to analyse the material (cultural) conditions of that time and country.
If I unterstand you right I don't think we should hold doctors in the country in today's time. I think we should create conditions in which the doctor doesn't want to leave. Because he might not earn as much as in the US, but likes his job and to help people, and maybe even her country. Like basically we have Health Care in
| >>85108 that's even what Marx thought. You need to have Capitalism (after Feudalism) to create industrialisation, but after some time Capitalism becomes useless for the people. Which is why we then need the next stage (Socialism). Marx even admired Capitalism for it productivity.
But funny enough the communists in a Feudal Country didn't bring it to the collapse which seem inevitable, but even had a stronger production in the end of WWII than the Allies and Axis.
And I don't know
| >>85124 how exactly you mean that communism came at the expense of many people, but just look at Capitalism. The improvements of Capitalism come directly from the misery of the people. Even their death.
| (Switched devices and therefore IDs)
I'm aware that Marx wish for Socialism and Communism to grow from a Capitlist economy. However like so much of what you are discussing, that was theory, and seemingly divorced from reality. The reality is that Communism most often arises in states which are poor or near collapse; ripe beds for totalitarianism. Socialist policies on the other hand have proven to integrate well with a market economy in the cases of Social Democracies.
| Scandinavian countries, which offer some of the highest standards of living in the world, also have some of the most economically liberal and friendly business environments. Even in China you can see the societal improvement that came with economic and individual liberalization.
It still seems to me that the power of the individual to guide their own destiny is the key.
>>85127
People suffer and suffered under both systems. Government and power causes suffering ultimately.
| Which is why the powerful government needed to enforce collective ownership of resources is dangerous.
At any rate I do plan on continuing to learn about socialism and I'm glad to have these discussions.
| >>85146
Very good points.
1. My thoughts are that we need to Marx (and other thinkers) Thoughts as a fundament to build on. To bring them into the 21 Century.
2. Maybe because in richer countries you have a stronger Bourgeois who fight against communist influence. And this power decreases in poorer countries which creates a power vacuum.
3. The reasons there a Social Democrats is because there were Revolutionary tensions which could be used. I personally think that most SOCDEMS
| >>85155 are trying to better the world. To use this tensions for a fast implemention of Socialist poliecis. The problem is that it doesn't attack the root of the Problem. People fought for human rights, freedom and things like healthcare. But people forgot they did. So now, step by little step those rights and benefits are taken away, because there are still people with more power than others.
So a ML friend of mine would probably say something like "The Socdems destroyed our
| >>85160 opportunity to change something for fast gains"
4. Also Socdems aren't attacked by the Bourgeois of their own, and other countries that much=have it easier to get in power.
5. Bernie Killed Rosa.
About China- they still believe they are Socialist (even when they are critised to be State Capitalist). And it seems like they try to create some artificial boom in the economies to get the benefits of Capitalism, to then build a better Socialism. Remember that China was a
| >>85161 Feudal country too before Commies came into power.
Funny enough it seems like that old communists are better at managing Capitalism in their countries than capitalists of other countries.
I don't know if strong government is always bad. It depends on the material conditions of your situation I think (and on what you what to archive.). But I believe generally speaking there needs to be some safety measures. Like I hate paliamentary democracy because it takes away the power
| >>85163 of the people to disagree and is very open to corruption because you can't just deelect someone when they do shit. Also party politics corrupt politics in general, give posts to the false people and destroies many opportunities for a country. That's why something like councils can be dank, or used for an inspiration.
| >>85152
And the Idea is often just to use the institution of the government to protect the people and their owernship of the means of production, etc.
Because when you look at Spain, there will be other forces trying to destroy it.
But hey we don't know how Socialism made in the west and in the 21 would look like. Maybe we could have a small Government and military and don't fear about foreign interference that much.
And I'm happy to hear that <3
Allot of liberals and even commies
| >>85173 can be pretty shit and whiney and stupid. But there is 'new' realist faction of the internet commies who like to discuss and aren't whiney babies. Funny enough most don't even like identity politics and unterstand the meme value of saying nigger or making jokes about the Jew controlling the world. Just in the funny way and not in the serious way xD
| >>85155
The first point is one that I've heard non-communist speakers discuss but rarely ever any communists, which is honestly a turn off because so much of socialism seems rooted in the previous century; the relationship between labour and capital has surely changed since then.
| As for the critique of SocDems, while I can see how they play their role in stifling a move to more radical leftism (like how conservatives offer a less radical route to patriotism than stronger forms of nationalism), I find it interesting that a realistic approach to offering solutions to what are considered on the left to be real social issues can be criticized so strongly.
| >Funny enough it seems like that old communists are better at managing Capitalism in their countries than capitalists of other countries.
Yeah maybe, but I think the world there is managing. They are basically practicing cronyism at the highest level; still an antithesis of freedom, and a great deal of the country still suffers for it.
| It is funny, the soc dems claim that they are socialists, yet follow capitalism in nearly every way, only implementing policies of "MUH FREE HEALTHCARE" or "MUH FREE COLLEGE" to give off an illusion that they are socialists, yet in reality, they are the most hated branch of socialism since lenin first stated his hatred of it.
| >>85620 But it is the most realistic one that can happened in the US. It's a good start too. US healthcare and Education payment system sucks as hell. From the left-leaning viewpoint like me it is a good way to make people see that left wing doesn't make country go poor like what they claimed.
| How did this thread end up with walls of text
| What would 'good leftists' do when it comes to the elections? Should they go for (slightly, or probably pseudo) left-leaning politicians or go full accelerationism by voting the reactionaries ironically?
| >SocDems
I'd just call them neo-liberals.
| Remind that punching nazis should be a civil duty desu
| >>69406
im sorry but i believe hurting people is wrong unless they took some ones life i believe no matter how bad said person is they should have the same rights as us unless they committed an actual crime
| >>86705 But they are not wrong when they say that soc dems only make poverty worse, venezuela, brazil, and china are very good examples.
| Read in another language
Reductio ad Hitlerum aka Goodwin's law
| http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/fully-automated-luxury-gay-space-communism?full=1
| So. Many. Words.
| If someone hasn't actually DONE anything wrong and just has opinions you don't like or even that society in general doesn't like and you physically assault them you're a fucking monster who deserves to be beyond bars, end of story. Thought isn't a crime.
This thread is permanently archived
| >:3