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George Lloyd's death
| We have an entire class of people that get away with terrorizing and murdering citizens. There's so many cases like George Lloyd that fly under the radar. The only reason this is getting the kind of attention it is is because it was recorded and the injustice cant be concealed. Violence breeds violence. The "vile animals" you refer have been treated like animals for years. I'm not condoning all of the protesters actions but you have to be blind to have not seen this coming.
| >>663422
second this, its been a long time coming. surprised it took this long for the fight back to get more intense.
| >>87face You're wrong if you think this is a "fight back". Sure that's what the people doing it will brand it, but they're not fighting anything, they're just making new problems.
There is a fight to be had here, but it's not a fight that's done with acts of petty and unspecific violence. It's a fight that will be had on a political level.
Violence in the streets won't lead to a change in policing, it'll only justify the police's more extreme ends.
| Lowkey wish i was there during the target raid, this g/u/rl needs a new tv
| i agree, george's death was completely uncalled for and the cop is a fucking scumbag. but the looting of stores completely unrelated to the incident is fucked up and only causes more conflict with police
| >>663467
Treated badly by a country that's dehumanized and commodified them since they were born. This country has been antagonizing it's people since it's inception. Crime is just indicator of that antagonism. This community has seen people killed, families destroyed, and lives ruined. If you want me to shed a tear because a few shops got trashed and looted, I really couldn't give less of a shit. This is what happens when people have their lives looted.
| >>663482
This is the same argument used to justify complacency for ages. You could say the same thing about the American Revolution. The fight on the political level will never happen if the people being exploited by the political system never make themselves heard. There's so many vectors by which the American government profits from occurrences like the Lloyd killing, why would they change the status quo otherwise?
| >>663482
Redlining, the New Jim Crow, gentrification, etc. The political and economic systems of America are dependent on these people's subjugation. We live in a machine caked in flesh and greased in blood, where people are treated like cattle for the slaughter. You're fine with violence, it just makes you uncomfortable when it's not a government employee doing it.
| Where was this outrage from you guys when families were priced out of their houses? Where was it when people were mass incarcerated for minor drug offenses that are legal in other places? When people were executed in the streets? You guys are actually more upset about some buildings than a man's life. This appeal to civility is just an advocacy for the violence that plagues these people day to day.
| If anybody's in the mood to get embarrassed on the internet today, please inject another pathetic take into this thread. Taking all comers.
| Posting news source in case someone hasn't heard about this prior to entering thread.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/05/29/minneapolis-death-george-floyd-protests-escalate-police-precinct-fire/5279830002/
And local news sources:
https://www.startribune.com/what-we-know-about-derek-chauvin-and-tou-thao-two-of-the-officers-caught-on-tape-in-the-death-of-george-floyd/570777632/
The video of the killing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lirHz93qJ50
It wasn't age gated yesterday. Looks like Youtube stepped in.
| Looting and breaking/burning is OK because you can make it pass off as collateral damage in an attempt to "get people embarrassed" on the internet, I guess...
Who, in their right mind, would think that causing damage in a store only damages the building ?
Everyone knows full well that stores and their poor owners are not the true target of these.
It's not important what is damaged in the process, because what we're talking about is the death of people who didn't deserve it.
| It's not important what you break in the process of making your protest acknowledged.
There is no human life who is lost to looting shops, and surely nothing like people suffering from it, right ? Well compared to those families destroyed, that's nothing anyways, right ?
It's just the shock factor so that you make people notice how angry you are.
| Waw, if I believed the words I just wrote, I'd actually bang my remaining neurons after writing that out of my head... which shouldn't amount to much considering I actually typed these, holy shit...
| >>5315d0
What argument are you even making? Everything you wrote was incoherent. I feel like I need the Rosetta Stone to translate this shit. Like, I think you're trying to be sarcastic, but I don't think you know how sarcasm works.
| If you have a problem with something I said, maybe just tell me what it is instead of failing to be snippy and short circuiting your brain.
| Snippy snippy~
It seemed that you said those shops getting wrecked are the collateral damage of a protest.
In your words, you expressed that while you do not condone such acts, it is not worth crying over what happened to those few shops, if we compare with the death of people and ill-treatment of others.
You know it's not the walls we're concerned with... it's the people who work inside them.
| >I'm not condoning all of the protesters actions but you have to be blind to have not seen this coming.
This thing you said here doesn't make sense to me...
Even when you see it coming you can't do shit about it.
Are you maybe trying to say that we shouldn't be surprised or even feel anything because it's predictable ?
Like, because we see it coming we can just brush it off and deal with it ?
Hand me the Stone, I'm having a hard time figuring out exactly what you're trying to say.
| >>663621
Dude, as far as I know, the only people who have been hurt or killed in these protests are the protesters. And that wasn't even what any of the other posters where talking about. They were scared that buildings were trashed. Not that people could be hurt.
And riots could have been prevented. The black community has been subject to injustice on injustice, and even as society has become more progressive, the damage done to black communities has never been ameliorated.
| >>21330e cope and seethe the only reason that blacks are treated this way is because they have recidivism towards violance and they think acting properly means "acting white"
Also who do you think are working in these stores you retard? Yeah other people that lost their livelihoods and almost their lives just because a cop killed someone. Ofc you couldnt give a shit you just want to outraged
| I'm okay to say that all these accumulated decades of shitting on people, getting away with corruption or even murder, is NOTHING compared to shops burning.
Does that make it justifiable ?
Like, hell, break stuff, of course you can't go peacefully about this... just direct it towards those you think deserve it... idk...
| >>663626
>just because a cop killed someone
If you're going to downplay a riot at least understand why people are rioting. Protesters aren't rioting because of George Lloyd. They're rioting because of George Lloyd and all the unarmed deaths that came before him and have been happening for YEARS. That and the fact that murderers are getting slaps on the wrists because they're cops(...)
| There's a taxpayer, who either paid for that building, or is renting it.
In the case they are simply working in it, they still lost their remuneration momentarily. The fact that nobody is presently working in the building doesn't mean they are not affected by that thrashing.
And yea I also wanna know how those protesters died or were hurt... shot ? Injured themselves in the chaos ?
| >>663631
(...) The only actual prosecution I can think of is that female cop who shot a man in his apartment earlier this year. The departments these cops work for are corrupt, the justice system they work for is corrupt, and that's why these riots are happening.
>>663630
It's definitely not justifiable. But people are mad, and mad people are irrational.
| >>663626
What are you talking about? I've heard no reports of employees who were hurt as a result of the riots, and either way, that isn't what the people in this thread were worried about. If it was, they would have said so directly. They're just worried about buildings because the image of the status quo in danger scares them.
| >>663635
You've changed my mind it IS justifiable, because nobody here seems to give a shit about anyone subjugated in this country until they start breaking shit.
And if you're really that opposed to breaking shit, that's kind of an American tradition. The American Revolution, John Brown, Nat Turner, the Civil War.
The other posters here don't ACTUALLY care about justice or violence. They just want to return to the status quo. Which was even more violent and unjust.
| >>663640
Oh I'm not saying you shouldn't break things. Break the right things. They don't have to physically broken, though. Of course, there's gonna be some awful lot of unjustifiable collateral damage, but if we can have at least some real impact where it matters in the mess...
And you're right, people breaking shit is a good way of drawing attention.
Please do break the status quo !
| they don't have to be physically broken*
| >>663642
Again, I'd say the collateral damage is absolutely justifiable. It's seems to be the only thing that gets people really talking about the issues the black community faces. Seriously where were the threads on mass incarceration and police brutality?
What do you think is the right thing to break?
| The habit of thinking you must break something to be noticed, for starters.
But more seriously, if you want to change something in your state, you'd have to break the wall that keeps your voice from being heard.
Unless all harm you want to raise awareness about is compiled and easy to go through, connected and reviewed, and you point out how peaceful action never seemed to bring change that mattered... Well it ain't working...
| >>663645
If you allow revolutionary action to be mediated by the norms of the society you're rebelling against, you're not actually rebelling, you're placating.
And these people are breaking the wall that keeps their voice from being heard, that was my entire point.
And I never said peaceful protest never worked, but first you have to make people see there's a problem.
| It's that easy to put recorded protests in a box and archive them... and how physically destructive they were is just gonna be a figure on paper.
If we don't want that paper to be archived, then copy that and shove it in people faces until it can't be ignored.
Don't make it emotional propaganda, make it facts.
| >>663647
Yes, make people see there's a problem, I do agree.
I get that's what you meant when you said people seem to care more about shops being burnt than people being shat on for lifetimes znd generations.
Unfortunately thrashing stores does attract attention, and people unaware of the background will see nothing but chaos and madness.
Completely overshadowing the real matter !
| And for something to be called a revolution it would take simultaneous action from a fairly considerable amount... which I can't see happening in the current status quo, as you said.
With that said. I don't think we're going the way we want...
| >>5315d0
You keep changing your arguments. I know it's because you can't defend any of them, but I just thought you should know.
What people think about the protest isn't really relevant. The point is to show the powers that be that exploitation will not be tolerated.
And even then, if you're worried about optics, they could just watch videos of the rioters giving food and medical supplies to people who need it
| I guess I'm just an idealistic prick, then.
Was there such a dramatic shift in my position, though ?
| And, I'd argue that the dissent is ultimately helpful. It allows us to see the allegiances of a lot of people around us and in power.
| >>5315d0
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to live in a world where actions like this weren't a neccessary part of survival in our political system, and hopefully someday we wont, but that's not the world we live in now.
After talking to you, I don't think you're personally a prick, but you have a massive blind spot when it comes to this and your rhetoric is used to condone tyranny.
| *hopefully someday we will
| I can see why you'd say that.
I guess we still have to get to the part where people notice there's something wronger than a single death motivating these protests...
I'm not accepting the way we go about this.
I'd be glad if you listed the arguments I couldn't defend. Just raw list, no analysis is fine.
Not saying I can defend them, just wanna know where I changed arguments in an inappropriate way.
With that I bid you farewell, and wish you fortune, even though we won't agree :/
| https://mobile.twitter.com/FatherKee/status/1266245256682430465
Dude's bar got burned to the ground during the riots, so his lifesavings are gone.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/691742164417249431/715996427456741476/EZMS3E_VcAECwQj.png
So is this guy's restaurant, but they seem to think it was justified.
| The small businesses were hurting to begin with because of the lockdown, but now with the widespread property damage, not sure how many people will be able to recover.
| >>b9b1ed
I never said good people wouldn't get caught in the crossfire, and it is sad that they do, but this is a fight that needs to happen.
If there's anyone to blame for what happened to these people's buisnesses, it's not the rioters, is the power structures that elicited the riots.
| >>663669
I'm not taking any sides in the above argument, I'm just posting examples of non-corporate entities who are being affected. That said, I would like to dispel the notion, if it was ever introduced in this thread, that no harm is coming to innocent bystanders as a result of the rioting.
| ...and I just accidentally deleted a post. Sorry about that.
| >>663670
Sorry, but you can see how I'd make that mistake in this context I hope.
That argument wasn't brought up in regards to small businesses. I agree, but I still think the riots are neccessary.
I think a good solution would be a federal subsidy of these buisnesses for the harm done.
| Who the fuck is this.
| >>663674
I certainly did. I didn't take any offense, no worries.
To my knowledge, for both businesses people are already attempting to crowdfund repairs/renovations. So one way or another, I hope they'll both be ok.
| >>663626
Also are we gonna ignore that >>d6ddca literally thinks the reason black people are disadvantaged in society is because they're just naturally inclined to violence?
| >>663635
Missed this one.
Even if the taxpayer isn't remunerated, I don't see how that's relevant. That's how America's tax system works. People who pay taxes don't necessarily benefit from what they're allocated to either way. I'm not anti taxation but this just seems like criticism of how America taxes people.
As for the chain stores that were wrecked, the employees still have jobs, they're just relocated to a slightly farther location.
| I've been getting a lot of information (and videos) about cops infiltrating into the protest then proceed to break windows and stuffs. Is that true? Can anyone clear this up?
I'm not from USA btw but shit looks pretty fucked up.
| >>663699
It's mainly speculative atm but historically, it's a method they've employed. Can't make any hard accusations, but I wouldn't be surprised.
| >>663699
There was a video of a man in a police issued gas mask smashing windows. His ex girlfriend went on to identify him as a policeman she dated over texts with a rioter. Again, this is highly speculative stuff.
| >>663705
Assuming you aren't, it's sociological and scientific consensus the the higher average rates of violence in black communities is because of socioeconomic factors, not race. Poor white communities have similar rates of violence as poor black communities.
| They arrested the police officer that kneeled on his neck.
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/derek-chauvin-arrested-george-floyd-death-minneapolis-police-officer/
| >Hennepin County Attorney Mike Freeman announced he has been charged with third-degree murder and manslaughter.
| >>663723
The consensus of scientific and sociological professionals is absolutely meaningful when discussing issues that have to do with science and sociology.
There is not a study you can show me to substantiate the claim the black people are more violent than white people that hasn't been debunked or misinterpreted.
| >>663692
I just thought it was pretty relevant since they are losing their investment, and by investment I mean power to run their business, which they make a living with, and sometimes pay people their wage.
They'll be covered to SOME extent, of course. Which doesn't clear the prejudice in any form.
Exception to the chain stores who can maybe cushion the damage ? Still doesn't take prejudice off, but let's say they're not taking that hard of a hit (in comparison).
| >>21330e lets be real here gurl the reason that they are "professionals" is that they are great at following orders, any scientist that would go againts current leftist climate would get their lives ruined by MSM through tons of hitpieces and getting kicked out by academia.
| >>663728
Wait so you don't mean the taxpayer who paid into public property, you mean a buisness owner who has private property.
I acknowledged that it was unfortunate, but there are solutions to this. They're currently crowdfunding to repair their establishments, and if the government actually cared, they could issue grants and subsidies to this business.
As for large corporations, they aren't hurt as much. Employees will have to commute to a different location I guess.
| >>663730
That typically only happens to scientists who are factually wrong. The "leftist climate" doesn't exist. Society is just less racist than it used to be.
| >>663710
St. Paul denies that the officer identified is the mysterious cryptid "Umbrella Man," and the accusation of the cryptid being "Jacob Pederson" comes from one "Dylan Park" who was relayed this information from the as yet unknown "ex girlfriend."
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/663524256319143972/715932045339000872/unknown.png
Its become another game of he said, she said. But there's plenty of video of the Umbrella Man wandering about. Sometimes without the umbrella, but the black clothing and expensive gas mask are the same.
| >>21330e "factually wrong" again determined by so called scientific consensus and people that hates whites, just look at the Boghossian & lindsay case where they basically rewrote Mein Kampf, made it about hating white men and submitted it to feminist journals which was accepted lmao
| >>663746
If you're going to deny empirical reality, there's nothing I can do for you.
And I'm familiar with the grievance affairs. Only 3 of the 20 hoax papers got published, and their experiment didn't even have a control group, making it a mute point either way.
| The most they proved were that those 3 specific journals didn't examine their material that thoroughly.
| Remember when someone made a bot to randomly generate cs papers and a bunch have been accepted, even since the time the generator got famous?
| >>663785
It's called SClgen. It was made by three MIT students, you know, the academic institution, and their papers were only accepted by journals that weren't peer reviewed, or in the non-reviewed section of credible journals.
| I think it's funny that people are saying that academic science can't be trusted when they can't even research their own arguments.
| We have to apply the scientific method to the scientific method to prove if the scientific method proves things.
| So now we finally have riots in the USA - a country which took the opportunity of riots in many other countries to serve geopolitical and upperclass interests. Including the removal of democratically elected governments and replacing small tyrants with chaos and even worse tyrants.
I really wish the outdated, rotten and hypocritical cold-war leftover empire called USA will collapse.
| >So now we finally have riots in the USA
Wut? You guys have riots all the time
| >>664200 a bunch of rallies maybe, but never a riot this widespread (not for a long time anyway)
police pelting a civilian recording on her porch: https://streamable.com/u2jzoo
peppering a reporter: youtube.com/watch?v=TtxcCrtst4c
| if anyone remembers the dallas police sniper a couple years ago, i wouldn't be surprised if something like that pops up again
| >>664187
Believe me, America isn't missing the chance to implement fascism on home turf. Predator drones flying over civilian areas, amplified police brutality, reporters arrested, a president calling for blood and in the meantime, threatening to curtail the freedom of online expression.
Like if authoritarianism had a binge card we'd have won 3 times by now.
| *bingo
| The craziest thing about Americans is no matter how authoritarianism grows, they are always screeching on the Internet and TV about how it's the only way to protect the freedumb
Get debt and die for Christ, truly the shining city on the hill
This thread is permanently archived
| The shit that's happening in America is just absolutely horrifying. At least to someone who lives in Europe. I hope the policeman who committed homicide on this innocent guy gets a massive sentence.
But even then, the thing that just disgusts me the most is the looting. Seeing Minneapolis ablaze just makes me feel scared for some reason. People are using this poor guy's name only to act like vile animals. It's just scary and disgusting.
And it's not even about the guy anymore.