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right-extremist riots in germany
| ...which where separated by only 600 totally overstrained policemen.
Even thought there are also some right-winger strongholds in the south and the west of germany, in the east they are way stronger, more primitive and geographically more equable distributed. On the top the ruling conservative party is chronically blind on the right eye the even more blind police is obviously infiltrated by rightists, which is beside the usual factors influenced by the failed post-socialist policy.
| A recent proof for the connection between the far-right momvements and the police is, that internal documents were released on rightists platforms and profiles and mixed up with propaganda lies such as the victim of the knife-murder was a german who wanted to protect a women from beeing raped by refugees. In truth the victim was a german from cuban origin, which somehow did not fit into the right propaganda.
Some Weeks ago another case already confirmed again the tight relation...
| ... of the german police and far right movements: A man on a rightits demonstration was attacking a journalist which lead the police to temporary arrest and interrogate the suspected journalist team. Later it came out that the atacking right-winged demonstrator worked for the federate-estate police.
| Beside these scandalous issues, back to the title giving one: During the rampage in Chemnitz nazists made hunt on people who they suspected for beeing "foreign" and/or "leftists". If you want to see pictures or videos, search the internet with an according search engine of your choice. Keywords: Chemnitz, Nazists
A link for lazy people:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=chemnitz
| 1930s all over again
| " wish we could turn back time" *flashbacks to facism* "to the good dope daaaaayyssss"
| inb4 nazi germany v2.
| "Antifascism is the worst product of fascism" -- Amadeo Bordiga
| >>394737
Yes and war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength.
I don't know if Bordigas statement is just taken out of context or if he already was into orwell-shit at his time. Because for me this statement itself doesn't make any sense, but I noticed that it's quite popular in the todays far-right propaganda.
| >>394816
>>394737
Fact is, that i personally feel saver in a region dominated by antifascists than in a region dominated by fascists. Because fascists already will attack me for the color of my skin (sorry guys, I'm born that way and can't change it), while antifascists only will attack me if I'm a or with fascists (which I'm free to do not so). I'm personally against violence, and ready to discuss everything at everytime with everyone.
| >>394819 issue is though that they label anyone fascist that don't align with their ideas or agree with them. In the end the modern anti-faschists are just faschist authoritarians.
Conflict isn't faschists vs anti-fascists nowdays. It's authoritarians vs non-authoritarians.
| >>394826
>they label anyone fascist that don't align with their ideas or agree with them.
Well, the prob here is that alot of people say
>I'm no racist, but I think niggers are lazy/criminal and do not belong to my country/culture
>I'm no sexist, but I think women belong to the kitchen and have to suck my dick
>I'm no fascist, but heil Hitler!
>Conflict isn't faschists vs anti-fascists nowdays. It's authoritarians vs non-authoritarians.
No, it's still capitalists vs. proletariat.
| >>394826
I had lots of discussions with anti-fascists, but it was about anarchism, communism/socialism, capitalism, liberalis, the Israel-Palestinian conflict, politics in Russia, turkey and USA.
And no one called me a fascist, even thought I often had a different opinion than them. Most antifascists in my country are anarchists, which I sympathize with, but myself I'm more a communist/socialist.
I think that all ideas are discutable, but it's not always of use (eg esoteric stuff)
| >>394989
I'm not really sure if they declared themselves as "antifascists". It was more "revolutionary" vs. "counter-revolutionary", which was not really fictional. The Bolshevik had many powerful deadly enemies. So their brutal proceeding against them is understandable.
There are rare examples of how to sustainable get rid of a monarchy as long there exist members of the monarch families. Especially in a backwarded society Russia was (and is again)
| Its kinda ironic they gathered near Marx statue in Chemnitz
| >>394826
>issue is though that they label anyone fascist
If someone holds views that proclaims
- a strict hierarchical society with a single leader surrounded by a loyal elite
- antagonizing both socialism and liberalism (optional: as a "jewish system")
- an authoritarian regime/totalitarian estate
- Violence and oppression as legitime, legal, ideal, natural and permanent policy
- militarist, nationalist, racist and/or religious fundamentalist ideologies
this person is a fascist.
| >>394826 I think you're mistaking the fact that facists always lie to your face about being facist for people using facist as an insult.
| Native Germans r pissed that there own government is letting unwanted foreigners in to there country that don't even contribute to society.
They refuse to learn the language they refuse to learn the local customs they refuse to obey German law. They're turning a beautiful country into a third world shithole. The fascist communist German government refuses to listen to there people's cry for justice and common sense.
| If the government won't listen, then the German people will rise and take back what is rightfully theres
| Second Final Solution when.
| >>395605
In fact the german government already bows to the right assholes. They even sent people back to Afghanistan because they decided it's a "save country" lol.
On the other hand they are very strict against "left extremists", especially since the G20 riots. Because some broken glas seems to be much worse then hunting down people on the streets. In another german city, nazists just beat up a syrian guy.
| >>395605
Also these extremist's aren't "the german people". They are just a radical minority. Also you can't take back what you've never owned. In capitalism the nation is the capitalists bitch after all.
| >>395713
The tail is wagging the dog. Nobody with their head on straight believes Afghanistan is a safe country, the gov just doesn't want to say that they really don't give a fuck about those folks, which is really common sense. If they didn't lean to the right they'd be pushed out by the right, which by the way, just to remind you, is the largest opposition party in Germany as in so much of Europe today.
| So the right being the opposition party to the left is bad. Ok. Let's make everyone leftists, that'll definitely make things better.
| >>395898
The right being the growing opposition means the population is turning away from the left & center &, those parties will be fucked in the polls if they don't adapt to the electorate. Or somehow control them, if you're into that.
Churchill did exactly the same thing when Europe was moving the other way, dabbling in socialism (which he passionately hated) as a means to innoculate Britain & the Tories against the Labour movement.
| >>395713
Ah why hello Sören, I see you're still buttblasted about the G20. I'm just glad they are finally starting to clamp down on Antifa. They were ignored way too long.
All you guys can say is "B-but muh nazis are worse!" Yeah what isn't you brainlets,that doesn't make you any better though.
| >>395761
If the far-right comes in power here in germany I give a fuck on democracy and will join ANY force to remove them before they do the same as they did in 1933. Back then it was too late, they had much support by the "center" and the left force was deeply separated.
As we know from Chile, it's officialky okay to bomb away a democratically elected governmen that you don't like. This line already was crossed by conservatives for too many times.
| >>396286
>I'm just glad they are finally starting to clamp down on Antifa.
Because there is a central organization called "Antifa" and all G20 Demonstrators (they even arrested normal journalists!) belonged to it and the police is not infiltated by the far-right and has nothing to do with them.
Yes, just keep on crawling in your beloved G20 capitalist elites anuses. But pls. don't complain about evil leftists and foreigners if the consequences of their failed politics hit you too.
| >>396595 dear God I hope the far right comes in to power for Germany. Just one large scale purge of non-native Germans. If they can pull that off, Germany would be a beautiful country to visit again. Insted of the third world shit hole it is turning in to.
| >>396642
And where are you from? According to your status of information it must be something equal to north-korea. But the question is then, how did you manage having access to the www?
| >>>396661 I'm from Texas and I'm not Latino, I'm not Hispanic, I'm Mexican. And I feel bad for the German people as there are being wronged by there communist leaders.
| ^ bait?
Really though, from all I see Germany is still fractured into East & West. If the east ever seriously wants to go back to the days of the Führereich then let them run their own show again, & we can sit back w/ popcorn & see how it goes. Dissenters from the east can go west & trade places with soldiers & police officers nostalgic for the national socialism.
| >>396704
No, Germany is like most other countries fractured between poor and rich. While in southern and wsstern germany the political right is pretty strong too, it's more civilized and integrated into moderate parties. After the 2nd world war the west recruited many ex-nazists for police, secret service and law to fight anything suspected as communism. After cold war cons and neolibs arrangend the "reunion" revanchistic and again the executive was casted with anti-leftists.
| >>396704
The east german rightwingers don't see themselves in the tradition of the Soviet satelites called "GDR" -
german "democratic" (lol) republic. For the nazists the current centrist coalitions between conservatives and social democrats is a communist dictatorship.
The hypocrite center parties and liberals just scapegoat the left party and it's past in the GDR for the now (again) upcoming right-extremism, ignoring the fact it's their fault.
| How quickly we forget the mistakes of our past.
| This thread took hope for mankind in me that I didn't even knew I had, people feeling ok with extremism as long if it is their side, and criticizing anyone in the center for being hypocrites and "siting on the fence". Yes guys we are getting far this way.
| >>397919
Extremism theory (=left and right are equally evil and in between is the center that is always right) is just a political campaign of the unreflected reactionist bourgeois society.
Also not everyone says the truth about where he really stands, either because of lack of knowledge or on purpose. The same way people often label each other wrong so that it fits to their political views.
| >>397919 >>397970
When it comes to the worst, the so called "center" of the bourgeois society will always fight groups considered as "extreme-left" and ally with the far-right. This is how it always was and will be. Everything else is only rightists propaganda.
| >>397970 >>398009 You sir need to slow down with your preaching my dear commie, you are quite the extremist, if you were islamic, I would fear that you may Allahu Akbar some shit up.
| >>397970 >>398009 And yes, if you don't have an absolute stand like the world is black and white without grey, you are an ignorant or a reactionary ( like every status quo is bad) if you are against my views you are the devil, and if you agree with me you are a enlightend genius. You are an amazing thinker.
| >>398056
The 20th and 21st century islamist terrorism is a creation of the so called "political center" along side with the "moderate right" in western countries. It started with the colonialism race and was continued during cold war to fight communism (or what they suspected for). Learn history my friend and you'll see the true nature of the so called "political center".
| >>398061
Yeah of course in your liberal, intellectual palace you hide your own absolute claim on truth behind 50 shades of gray. It's the same with "pragmatism" and "centrism". Making right-wingers politics but putting a humane maquerade on it. And everyone who points on it is an extreme leftist, and everyone who wants to do the same without wearing a mask is extreme-right. The most radical views and practise comes straight out from the self proclaimed center.
| >>398056
Other than most of nazists/fascist scum I don't hide my orientation: Yes, I'm an evil commie, the nightmare of both: the bourgeois society and the far right. But you know what? I give a fuck. If I'm an extremist for wanting a fair, social, solidary, peaceful, reasonable and progressive society then o.k. I'm prefer beeing a radical humanist than a radical misanthrope.
| >>398065 Why every left wing like to tell people to study history? I can stop but wonder, what If I decide to study Holodomor, would that be good enough? Jeez the left and right became a meme of each other.
| >>398074 Who said I'm a right winger? Bloody hell I received shit from them for being pro abortion and all, but I also received shit from left wingers for being pro guns, so I say you, sir, need help, you are the definition of a extremist by the book, the world is black and white, where black is right and white is left in your views.
| >>862756 Don't argue with the retards. Both the extreme right and left are so self righteous that nothing else for them exists outside their views. Didn't Marx use a similar quote? It seems every extremist has their ghost. Commies are haunted by "Capitalists" and Nazis by "Jews".
And before the retards reply, no, not siding with the far left nor right does not make me a centrist. I'm a centrist if there's only Socialist and National Socialist but thankfully that's not the case.
| As usual a thread on /new/ devolves into a shouting match between people who think they have it all figured out and that there's nothing you can do to change things.
| >>398090
So you suggest having bad intensions instead? Or no intensions at all? How would that work?
| >>398120
And why is it considered to be "moderate" separating people and opinions into "sane" and "insane"? A typical example of the bourgeois "centrist" and "pragmatism" propaganda lies.
| >>398101
>Both the extreme right and left are so self righteous that nothing else for them exists outside their views.
And who is in the position that can judge what is extreme right and left? The self proclaimed centre and it's ministry of truth? That's lame.
| >It seems every extremist has their ghost. Commies are haunted by "Capitalists" and Nazis by "Jews".
So you would say the idea of as world wide jewish conspiracy is equal to the analysis marx and engels made on capitalism? "My Struggle" is to you qualitative equal to "The Capital"? Cultural and "racial" differences have more meaning to you than class differences? Proclaiming something different would be radical left to you? Congtats, you were brainwashed!
| "When the Nazis fetched the Communists, I kept quiet; I was not a communist. When they imprisoned the Social Democrats, I kept quiet; I was not a social democrat. When they got the unionists, I kept quiet, I was not an unionist. When they brought me, there was no one left to protest."
- Martin Niemöller -
german evangelic theologian
* 14.01.1892, † 06.03.1984
Think about it.
| >>a0a2a3 I refuse to believe that you are nothing but an obvious troll at this point, the way you "took" the intetion part gave your trolling away, it is impossible you are being serious.
| >>398158 I've seen just as in depth analysis on problems based on genetical studies from Nazis. That "scientific" aspect does not take away from the fact that either side obsessively antagonizes everything against it. You've proven that time and time again. Even your language is a dead giveaway. Brainwashed would indeed fit in line well with what>>2839b5 posted. Keep fighting your undying ghost though. I'm sure it haunts you well.
| >>398162
Can you finally decide if I'm a pointless troll or an evil "left extremist"?
To be honest I consider myself as moderate left. I never proclaimed to do revolution and overthrow the goverment. I'm pretty much against violence. Under normal circumstances I would be called a "social democrat". But things changed. Social democracy is dead and nazism/Fascism is on the rise again. Seeing this makes me continuously loosing faith in reforms and a democracy regulating capitalism.
| >>398215 I don't think this guy is serious anymore, he typed such absurds that I can't believe he is serious anymore.
| so who in this thread isn't German and still opens their mouth when they don't actually know the situation ?
Deutschland isn't your fucking Seattle downtown parade, if you haven't lived there and are posting from new fucking jersey with your fat freedom fingers, don't come talking about a people and a culture, especially if you're trying to politicize something.
especially Americans just have a weird distorted vision of the world with weird politics and mentality and i wonder why.
| >>398855
Theories about lizard people and flat earth vs. the idea of a system inherent class conflict are not the same. I've never met lizard people and there is much evidence the planet is round (in fact more like a potato). Putting this on the same level with critique on the economic system and it's impact on history and society is ridiculous.
The ignorance of the political center to this critique just paves the way for the far-right (again!).
| >>398911
For one thing, when someone says "I can't believe people believe that." it makes perfect sense to cite something far more outlandish. You're the one putting Marx on the same level as Icke in your mind, not me.
Secondly, for reference, right & left are comparative terms, if you don't acknowledge a common reference point then you've largely lost the ability to discuss such matters in any meaningful way. Nazis say they're centrists, I think you'd agree that begets extremism?
| Thirdly, eceonomic critique & analysis can come from any point of the political spectrum, however far left or right you can imagine, & still be a good analysis, once you buy or at least permit the authors' premises; for example class struggle, or, alternatively, divine guidance of the economic system in the fashion of Adam Smith's invisible hand, which to some at least isn't outlandish at all. I'm told it's even tought in some universities.
| So you see, from the perspective of someone who doesn't believe in the premises, the arguments & analysis of Marxism, regretfully as it may be to you, do in fact appear to have a similar level of validity as many which are built upon premises you believe to be fundamentally mistaken.
Though they are not absurd, as are the grand delusions of lizardmen & planet beyblade.
| >>398978
>eceonomic critique & analysis can come from any point of the political spectrum
Right-winged:
The root of all problems are jewish/muslim/socialist/lizardmen conspiracy and everything can be explained by culture or "race"
Center:
Everything is fine and we have no idea where extremism comes from (except those we support to fight other extremists) To us any kind of critique is the same bullshit. When it comes to the worst we ally with the right to keep the status quo.
| >>398978 >>398988
Left-Winged:
We see History as a story of class-conflicts, determined by economic reality. We failed many times to make it better, but without us humanity goes obviously back into barbarity. Without us people would still be ruled by a "god chosen" king and his family clan. Slavery would be a normal thing (again) and women would be objects without basic rights. Unfortunately the political center is blind to our critique and prefers to ally with right extremists.
| GOSH I thought you were a troll but the amount of effort you are putting here shows you are not, unfortunately, you are a fanatic >>ba2bfc is right, you need a dragon to slain, good luck. But really the amount of maniqueism in the things you wrote is funny as fuck, the left is never wrong and everyone else always is, if that is not extremism I don't know what is, reminds me of those communist hymns of how the party is never wrong, but whatever a mind set on stone is set on stone.
| >>399085
>reminds me of those communist hymns of how the party is never wrong
Well, not everyone who says he's a communist is a communist. The song you refer was from the united socialist party of germany, which ruled over the east during cold war. Most of them were nothing but puppets of the stalinist-soviet empire, which itself was pretty conservative/reactionist.
Also only because someone falsely proclaimed to be never wrong, it doesn't automatically make him being always wrong.
| >>399099
And this leads back to the topic here: The problem in eastern germany was, that after the german reunion the center-parties excluded the new formed democratic socialist party (now left party) from the democratic discourse for long time, while replacing the old socialist elites in the executive and judicative with far-right-winger revanchists. They also transacted the GDR industry with alot of corruption and trampled down any positive achievements from the socialist epoch.
| >>399104
Because you for sure may have a critical view on the failed socialist regimes, and for sure it may be justified. But the point is, that the political center put the east-german socialism on the same level with the nazists regime, like they put left and right extreme on the same level. They acted (and still act) as if it was the same thing, which contributed to re-establish a radical far-right again, while the left put much effort in reflecting their faults in the past.
| But you see what happens here: instead of talking about present problems, you attack those who want to do this because you suspect them for causing more problems, referring to the past. This is exactly the rhetoric of the "new" or "alternative" right, which scapegoats all leftists (and who they suspect for beeing leftists) for the evil, ignoring the fact that most of time conservative and neoliberal parties ruled (which they now accuse for beeing "communists" too, lol)
| >>399099 Yeah, sure, Stalin was totally a right winger.>>399108 I would love to solve nowadays problems, specially with already tested and failed past ideas, that would be awesome. Everyone knows that the right can go too far there on the line of racial supremacy, the ones that pretend to be free from extremism and denied have ever done anything wrong, is the left.>>399105 Yeah, evil me thinking that a failed expetiment failed.>>399099 But they sure want to be and will act like it
| >>399099 And I'm scared to now what Stalin was "right about" But whatever dude, good luck fighting your big evil, like christians do with Satan, feminists with the patriarchy, conversatives with the globalists and so on, good luck and enjoy yourself.
| when in doubt, be a centrist extremist
our talking points include absolute logic, emotionless reason, total efficiency, technocracy, ultimate equilibrium, being intelligent, science stuff, intelligent national development, the bloody murder of corruption and conspiracy, transparency, the erasing of useless and annoying liberties and the guaranteeing of more important ones
our greatest enemy is the parasite and the retard.
| >>399242 I hear people talk about "extreme centrism" but usually they're just extreme right lying to sound more palatable to centrists.
If you're extreme, that's they antithesis of being in the center.
| >>399324
not really, if you base yourself in the idea that you must reject anything that isn't absolute rationality or presents any trace of emotional reasoning, and enforce the concept of total logic above everything else, rationality, efficiency, and stability against idealism, that's a notion that can easily go into extremism in my belief and opinion
i was qualifying as authoritarian for a while until i understood that both concepts aren't necessarily dependent of each other
| >>399114
And here you expose the typical extremism of the self proclaimed "moderate", "pragmatic" political "center": You reduce more than 200 years in which socialist ideas and movements were active to the short (and brutal) period of Stalinism. Really awesome! Because every unionist is an evil Stalinst or what?
| >>399113
>Yeah, sure, Stalin was totally a right winger.
He was. He proclaimed "Socialism in one country" and let imprison anyone who stood in a opposition to his agenda, which were not only real counter-revolutionaries (yes, they were real and not only a propaganda lie) but also many communists who disagreed with his policy. The most notable one was Leo Trotsky, whose ympathisants were persecuted as "Trotskyists". Note, that it also was Stalin who allied with Nazi-Germany.
| >>399455
But Stalin literally was allied with nazi Germany before they attempted to invade the USSR.
| >>399405 >>399324 Yeah cuz only the right lies, the left never pretend to be moderate. Okay tell me one communist regime that didn't up in dictatorship? Oh yes, not a single one, Stalin was an example. Yes I know you are going to say that they weren't commie regimes, that the precious holy land of heaven on earth called communism it never happened, well that is bullshit but like I said before, believe in what you want, go kill your evil dragon called capitalism my dear hero.
| >>399522
>Yeah cuz only the right lies, the left never pretend to be moderate.
Well, if you look at history, things that are mostly accepted by todays moderate conservatives (e.g. democracy, civil rights, chance-equality, etc.) were in the past considered to be (left-) radical/extreme, including communist/socialist claims - and as such opressed brutally. In germany it took two world wars to establish a democracy, which is now (again!) threatened by a rising far-right.
| >>399522
Fact is, that already before the end of the cold war, western politics started beeing dominated by neoliberal and neoconservative politics. In the 60s and the 70s left movements succeeded in changing the capitalist society on the surface, making it more humane, social, sustainable and liberal. But it only worked facing real communism/socialism as a serious competitor/alternative. After the downfall of the USSR a short phasis of euphoria in the 90s came up: Now, as the evil
| >>399735
communist opressors were defeated a new era of prosperity and peace will come. It was literally promised to the people. But during this phase, the beast of capitalism was totally unchained. Social and ecological standards were systematically dismantled, military warfare became more and more a accepted way of doing politic again. And now far-right movements are rising with paroles no one expected to hear them again in this organized way after the 60s and 90s.
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| Last weekend on a public city-festival in Chemnitz it came to a fight between about four or five participants. The situation escalated when one man attacked the others with a knife, where one was hit deadly and others got injured.
When it came out that the man with the knife and his companion were refugees from Iraq and Syria, it was a trigger for german right-extremists to go to Chemnitz and make rampage. As a result 6000 nazists stood quickly against 2000 counter-protesters...