This thread is permanently archived
WHAT IS YOUR POLITICAL IDEOLOGY
| Yes
| Ideoligies are stupid, like people.
| Ideology can suffer from corruption.
I prefer policy
| Enlightened Centrist
| Nihilism Anarchist
| Kybernetic organized space and cyborg communism.
| liberalism, socialism, democracy and all this in an authoritarian state with blackjack and the world government!
| hey, you, pendosy. Tell me please, how can I, a simple Russian person, overthrow my сщккгзе government?
| Tired democratic socialist with a light anarchist glazing in that I believe billionaires should be killed and eaten.
| and further. you hate Russians on this forum, or you do not care
| >>378953To eat? it's wild. Feed the dogs!
| >>378284
Something of a Socialist. Stalin did pretty much nothing wrong except purge my man Bukharin, Mao was a great warlord and early leader for China, and Daniel De Leon is the greatest theorist of them all.
| Marxist-Leninist-Maoist with Weebo characteristics
| >>378340
"anti-ideologism" and "pragmatism" are the worst ideologies of all. Because they deny the fact that all talking, discussing, planning and writing is nothing but ideology.
If someone says
>I prefer Solution X because it's so pragmatic/rational/ideology-free
He did nothing but proclaim his personal ideology and at the same time fools people about this fact.
| >>378340
Ideologies are necessary to improve things. If you can't imagine how things could go different, then you also can't make them better than they are. Which doesn't mean any ideology automatically leads to progression (to be honest most are backwarded), but they are a condition for it. No ideology, no progression and pragmatism/anti-ideologism is nothing but a lie.
| >>380112 I was mocking, expected nothing but alas, I got a big fish with the bait. You know what is worse than what you just spoke of? People who have shitty ideologies, and since they don't have good arguments for them, they try to pull every idea down to their level, into the realm of the ideology, instead of trying to see the valitidy of each idea by it's own merit. Ideologies are packets of ideas, some may be rot to the core, we should look up ideas not ideologies.
| >>380116
>ideas not ideologies
Did you ever think about how it comes that both of these words share the same root?
| >>380120 But that does not make them the same thing, and I expected more than "but linguistics" What I said is that we should check idea by idea instead of taking them in packets, and that is one hell of a difference.
| >>380121
>we should check idea by idea instead of taking them in packets
Nice ideology you have here :-P
| And the other issue that this ideology this and that causes is tribalism, we create teams a and b fighting each other, and after not long all rationality will be lost, just look on how both right and left behaves.
| >>380123 Yeah and a wonderfull not argument you have there, sounded like a post mordenist acquaintance of mine, good luck you will go very far that way.
| >>380120 Except they don't.
Ideas came as an Ancient Greek term as an understanding of objects and subjects. An ideology on the other hand had a complicated history throughout the late Renaissance but got its eventual final meaning from Napoleon. Napoleon sought it out based on a previously existent group of religious hermits called the ideologues. The way he instead used the term was against those who do not share his beliefs. The most basic definition of an ideology is
| >>380126 Does not matter if you saw it or not it is there, not only you gave a super immature answer>>380123, it feels like you are going full sophistry in here. When you decide to say why everything is an ideology we will proceed it properly.
| >>380127
Wow, so much pragmatism in one picture:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Jacques-Louis_David_014.jpg
Don't make me laugh.
| Well, there are things that are not Ideology. Like
>you have to breath, so that you don't choke
>you have to eat, so that you don't starve
But as soon political/economical interest conflicts and differences comes in, there is no such a thing like "ideology-free pragmatism". It's just a lie from people who believe they are chosen to rule over others.
| Ideology is the natural result of existing power-structures. Everyone who says diffrent is just a pathetic liar, who does not understand anything - or he does and benefits from others doing not so.
| >>380137 "Power-structures" I knew I smelled the stank of Foucault in here ahahahahahahahahaajhaajha
| >>380140
It's not like foucault had a patent on the term "power-structures". When I say "power-structures" I mean of course economical-/political ones.
| >>380142 Your entire argumentation a freaking post modernist signature, and he was known for using these types of terms for his bullshit, he don't have the patent but was his focus. But why are we even losing tine discussing? There is no such thing as a objective truth, everything is a power struggle, right? Hahahahahaba I wonder how hard must be to live in such Hobbesian nightmare.
| >>380141
The issue with pragmatism is, that it doesn't exist in the way it is commonly used, especially by delegates of political/economical power. It's just a lie to fool people about the fact, that the dominating circumstances are the best and don't need to change.
| >>380150 Yeah right, because status quo is inherently bad and every revolution is good right, comrade?
| Social democracy I guess? Capitalism is cool as an incentive system, but if uncontrolled, it becomes way too degenerate. Also services such as public healthcare and education are more important than anything else. Other than that, do whatever the fuck you want, just don't harm others.
| >>380149
>Your entire argumentation a freaking post modernist signature
Yeah, just brand me with another outworn label. It doesn't change the fact that my argumentation is superior to the other bullshit.
>There is no such thing as a objective truth, everything is a power struggle, right? Hahahahahaba I wonder how hard must be to live in such Hobbesian nightmare.
There's no need to explain it to you. Just turn on your brain on and look at the facts, and you'll understand.
| >>380153
Well, you prefer living in an absolutist system, where you and your descendants have to obey the god-chosen monarch and all his god-chosen descendants?
| >>380153
>I cannot say whether things will get better if we change; what I can say is that they must change if they are to get better.
Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
| >>380157 What? Got tired mister liberal humanities college student? But facts are objective truths, I thought that was used to opress, just like pramagtism, I would use logic but acording to Derrida that is just phalocentric, you know...patriarchal. And what is that?! Mister everything is an ideology is having an issue with labels? Talk about contradiction. This endoctrination you are going through is pure cancer, and fucked societies around the west and made the world worse.
| >>380159 Absofuckinglutely just look at places after the revolution comrade, there is no such thing, like North Korea, the power was not transfered from the mornarch to his son, and the same in Cuba the guy never gave it to his brother, you are so right.
| >>380166
>What? Got tired mister liberal humanities college student?
You partly got me. But only partly. Because I'm neither liberal nor humanity college student. I'm just a bit tired of repeating myself to indoctrinated bullheads.
>This endoctrination you are going through is pure cancer, and fucked societies around the west and made the world worse.
Welcome in year 2018! Cold war is over, capitalist globalization is fucking humanity, and you stuck in old patterns and twist things
| >>380183 Hahahahahah I never said Cold War was not over but tell me, where do I twist things? And how communism did a good job helping Ukraine with, Holodomor and all? And please do tell, how the evil capitalists are fucking mankind and how the proletariat should take the means of production.
| >>380183 And again, you are right, all old patterns are inherently bad and the new ones are good, viva la revolución compañero, hasta la victoria siempre!
| >>380173
Oh, yeah. Pls. tell me about the glorious korean revolution. I want to hear all about it.
And putting it together with Cuba and the Castro-Clan is just a joke. I still would prefer Cuba over Saudi Arabia. Or even in any other monarchy, no matter how much power is cut from the monarch.
| >>380188 I fucking despise monarchies as much as the other guy, but I would not complain to be in a European one like the british, the dutch nor the one in Luxembourg. But again when you said mornachies I really thought you meant the so called "rulling class" Yes communism is a fucking joke indeed, everywhere it goes it fucks everything, beyond cultures and languages and on how it was planned, it have the huge power in end in the same way does not matter on how it got there.
| >>380185
The "Holodomor" was not the result of communist ideology. Neither Marx nor Engels or any other socialist/communist theoretic aimed to do such things. It was the result of self-proclaimed pragmatists in the communist movement, such as Stalin.
>And please do tell, how the evil capitalists are fucking mankind
Just look at the last two world wars, and open your eyes, as they already prepare and exercise for the third one.
| >>380185
>>how the proletariat should take the means of production
By turning their brains on, gain a class consciousness equal to the capitalists one, organizing in basis-democratic councils and make use of modern information technology. Oh and convince class traitors to get rid of their false believes and join them, or get rid of them. Sounds harsh, but it doesn't have to be. It's all up to the peoples ability to be reasonable. Easy-Peasy.
| >>380194 I knew it! I knew it would end in the "It wasn't true communism" Sure! Let's try that shit again and when it fucks up like it did and always will we go with, "It wasn't true communism" and when someone comes and tells you that your ideology is shit you can go like "But everything is a ideology" Yes, totally because every evil from the world, comes from capitalism you are so right.
| >>380192
People like you are the kind of people that call the dude crazy who wants to build a machine that makes him fly. And everytime he crashes you just say: "Haha, see, it'll never work, it's a shitty idea in general"
But what you're going to do if somewhere people try it again and again and the failing becomes less disastrous or it becomes obvious there are ways to make it work in a good way?
| >>380200
>I knew it! I knew it would end in the "It wasn't true communism" Sure!
So what about China and Vietnam? Are they true Communism?
| >>380198 Read Solzhenitsyn and go away from your ideological echo chamber, he wrecked communism and all of it's bullshit, also read Alan Sokal on post modernism, he have a book called Fashionable Nonsense, where he shows how much of a bullshit is that, or you can keep on driking yesterday's poison and screeching about revolutions, your lovely ideology fucked my country that in turns fucked my life, and the evil capitalist globalism, helped me to get my internship
| >>380200
>yes, totally because every evil from the world, comes from capitalism you are so right.
Of course, in a world that is globally dominated by capitalism, and if you see economy as the basis for every social/political phenomenon then everything "evil" in the world comes from capitalism.
| >>380202 No, I'm the guy that tells you that the definition of insanity is, doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting an different result. I'm the guy that, tells you that building wings of wax, won't make you fly, cuz Icarus was not real, and the thing is, every time they tried, it didn't worked and never will, because reality does not work that way, so you guys in the heigh of your insanity, started to deny reality itself since it does not works in your way.
| >>380205
>my country
You have your own country? Why not sell it and have a nice live, dude.
>and the evil capitalist globalism, helped me to get my internship
yeah, yeah. And when you finished your internship, like all the others you have to compete with them on the global labour market and may be replaced soon by automation. And then you're gonna cry: "uh, kill the evil jews/muslims/liberals/communists" Because this is the way things go right now (again!).
| >>380205
>One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich
was required reading in highschool for me (U.S.) and tbh it was pretty good.
| >>380209
>so you guys in the heigh of your insanity, started to deny reality itself since it does not works in your way
This is EXACTLY what happens right now to capitalist society.
>No, I'm the guy that tells you that the definition of insanity is, doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting an different result.
Maybe you're just the retarded guy who expect people doing the exact same thing over and over again, ignorant to what they really do or want.
| >>380210 Hahahaha oh boy so funny hahaha not even dad jokes are so bad. Sorry but no, I'm the guy coding the robots, better than work to death in a sugar cane under the orders of the supreme leader. But really how many countries and have to be fucked, how many people have to die, be tortured, worked to death, how much you should lack on moral basis to say "It wasn't real communism?" How many has to suffer in that equity lab of yours, to you understand that damn utopia will never..
| Happen. Do you think that you are a shining beacon of everything good to put forward that absurd? Think again kiddo, you are not and even if you were someone would shot you and the back and take power as it happen as always.
| >>380214 Yes! Keep the ad hominem you are really showing your level here. Sure because the world is really richier as it ever was, people have more access to everything, health, education, anything than ever, and the evil capitalism that allowed all of that is the worst thing ever, sorry buddy, the only way to force outcomes is to make everyone poor and fucked, if you give people freedom they can grow in many ways.
| >>380218
>I'm the guy coding the robots
Oh, I'm coding robots too. What kind of robots do you code? The ones that fly around and shoot at evil "terrorists"?
>But really how many countries and have to be fucked, how many people have to die, be tortured, worked to death, how much you should lack on moral basis to say "It wasn't real communism?"
Not even one. You have a totally misconception of what communism is about, like those who failed to achieve it.
| >>380219
>Do you think that you are a shining beacon of everything good to put forward that absurd?
No, I'm no capitalist man.
| >>380221
>people have more access to everything, health, education, anything than ever
Oh pls. give me a list of "communist/socialist" countries (at least on paper) where people had less health and education than before.
Africa ran down without socialist parties, the near east run down without socialists, fucking asia and south america where colonies and/or fascist dictatureships where people were tortured before socialist came in power.
| >>380221
Your hatred for everything you suspect to be communist/socialist makes you blind for reality, and you don't even realize it. You womit around with foam in your mouth about how evil and shitty communists/socialists (or at least who you suspect to be such) are but if they weren't there still would be child labour (which still is the basis for capitalist textil industry), a 12 hour day (in austria it actually returns) and no holidays at all.
| >>380248 I am from south america, and let me tell, we ALWAYS had socialists parties and goverments and they fucked us badly, education became worse and all, so try again buddy. And don't you get that Korea Cuba and all really tried to be commies and ALL of them ended up in the same place, they tried the same ideology, for the same purpose and ended up in the same place.
| >>380248 From the I don't know, 70's to nowadays, pick any fucking place from the west that haven't increased it's, well, pretty much everything under capitalist system, Europe for example, north america or whatever, sorry buddy, but capitalism has been tested and is used, it works and Cuba is taking communism out of it's constitution...so them again, communism failed and will always fails.
| >>380246 Now I see why you live in a world made out of lollipops and rainbows with unicorns riding on them.
| >>380253 Honestly? Keep doing what you are doing, you are really helping Trump, AFD, Geert Wilders and similar types, all they need is folks like you.
| >>380245 Not even one? You really think that you are perfect and understands marxism better than anyone, sorry, but you, sir, is a meme.
| >>380267
>I am from south america, and let me tell, we ALWAYS had socialists parties
Yeah, except the fascist dictators supported by the USA, that make people "disappear" when they were suspected for beeing socialists/communists. And also democratically elected governments that where replaced by dictators for the sake of capitalism.
>education became worse and all
How it comes socialist governments had the best alphabetization rates in third world countries, which now decreases?
| >>380270
>but capitalism has been tested and is used, it works
Yeah it has been tested in two world world wars, where the second one ended with two nuclear bombs. Impressive. And now everything runs down. Nationalism, racism and religious fundamentalism increases everywhere in the world, which has absolutely nothing to do with communism/socialism. It's caused by the fail of capitalism (again!).
| >>380321
>Fascist american evil do-ers
Jesus christ dude, calm the fuck down, how about just saying "Oh yeah I disagree with you but I think you hold a few fair points, let me continue to be civil in my disagreement"?
>Your next line is "Shut up capitalist scum! REEEEEE"
| >>380272
Islamist fundamentalism was massively supported by capitalist estates to damage the soviet union and potential allies in ex-colonies. And it succeed. Nord-Africa did way better under arab-socialist governments compared to the shit there is now. The people who proclaim these days about evil islamist terror are the same kind of people who made it a big thing in this century again.
| >>380322
Communism has been tested too by the way, the bolchevik's followed it by the book when Lenin was in power, and even he recognized he had to let way to certain measures of property and private ownings
And stalin was there for the second world war too, and vietnam, and thats when the gulags happened, stalin and the soviets were way more violent and destructive than even the atomic bombs
Not trying to be a smartass, but you cannot deny the facts
| >>380325
>how about just saying "Oh yeah I disagree with you
it's what I do
>but I think you hold a few fair points
which is totally not the case. All i read from >>531fc7 is
>muh communism is evil, it's the worlds biggest problem and capitalism will save us all without any alternatives and anyone who says diffrent is a communist/terrorist/islamist who needs to make the desaparecido... HAIL TO THE CAPITAL!
| >>380333
I never said he was better
You both are the kind of people who ruin this board for anyone who wants to have a discussion without resorting to name calling
| >>380330
Stalin ended the socialist/communist agenda and proclaimed "socialism in one country". The brutal transformation of russia from a backwarded agricultural feudal estate to a world leading industrial major power had less to do with a communist/socialist revolution. It was more like a special form of bourgeois-fascist development dictatorship. Communism/Socialism was never intended to develop a backwarded country. Lenin did a good (but still brutal) job and stalin ruined it.
| >>380336
Then go to your safespace and cry mr. true-neutral boring centrist ying-yang karma pseudo-cultivated pseudo-intellectual pseudo-constructive douche. Or do you have anything valuable to throw into the discussion?
| >>380330
>the bolchevik's followed it by the book
Which book?
I tell you who followed it by the book: The nazists in germany. And they were elected, out of a bourgeois capitalist democracy. And this is what will happen again and again in capitalism. Just look what happens all over the world today. It's not communist who threat and split people everywhere with their lies, it's fuckin nazists and religious fundementalists.
| >>380273
Don't make me laugh. Of course, it's the communists and socialists fault that far-right extremists rise in the capitalists world. I sometimes wonder what fantastic parallel universes people can create in their mind to make it fit with the real world in their ideology (which they believe/pretend beeing "non-ideologic pragmatic" lol). Nice doublethink.
| >>380342
Religion isnt even that troublesome anymore dude, I know its crazy to think about, but not a lot of religious people are dangerous, some are bigoted but not many resort to violence or drastic actions, they just use their freedom to vote for what they think is right
And while neo-nazis are a cause for concern, there arent nearly as many as you may believe there are, fun fact, not everyone that disagrees with immigration or supports trump is a nazi.
| >>380321 hahahash it didn't, don't know what you heard but it is not true buddy I live here, education is shit and pretty much every single party is left wing, and what about Venezuela they were not true socialists too? Hahahahahaha
| >>380341
Dude, I'm a right leaning conservative who's against immigration and who disagrees with communistic ideas, I just havent forgotten how to not be a fucking nuisance to those around me who dont care about my ideologies and who have better things to do than have it crammed down their throat.
Also,ying yang and karma? Work on your insults dude, this is making me chuckle
| >>380322 Don't know in what you are high into to believe that both world wars were caused by capitalism.
| >>380347 it is fault of blokes like you because you and your type are extremists, and you are alike to these other folks horseshoe theory, extremisms brings more extremism. You and your type see the world in black and white Communism inherently good and never did anything wrong, capitalism bad, did all the evils on the world, you are being brainwashed I've seen people with the exact blueprint of a mind as you, capitalism is not perfect but works, communism failed and will again.
| >>380328 Yeah right, they did it those shits and all, but it does not change how much blood and miserg that religion brought on the world for god knows how long.
| >>380356
extremism theory is falsified, by the self proclaimed "center" which rather supported islamists and fascists than actually facing the issues of their own system.
| The problem with islam is that the countries practicing it use it as a law to follow
| >>380359
actually the islam is the youngest world religion. So the others make people suffer and/or fooled them with wrong hopes of a better (after-)live and a higher cause much longer.
| This thread has run its course.
This thread is permanently archived
| TITLE