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Buy American? No thanks, Canadians starting to say
| I never bought american stuff. Not for political reasons. Most american products just have low quality standards and are overprized. If I need technology I buy it direct from Asia, before it is rebranded by american consulting, design and marketing studios like apple.
| On the other I don't know any example where a political product boykott worked. I like Canada and dislike the USA very much, but this is stupid. Greetings from Europe.
| Political boycott worked against south African apartheid.
| I bought a Microsoft phone in 2015. Then I bought a Chinese smartphone in 2015 that rivals today's apple phones.
Then I bought an American battery. Then I bought a Chinese jump-start kit that can start the car without a battery in it. The kit is the size of my hand and can charge my phone.
I'd rather buy Chinese stuff because of the amount of functionality.
| >>333385
No, the boycott was not the reason apartheid ended. The reason why it ended was because the ANC become more and more popular and western powers were afraid southafrica would fell to communism if they continue supporting the appartheid regime. During cold war everything was possible if it was considered to "stop communism" even rearmament of germany and "social market".
| Back to Topic:
I just read, that Harley Davidson is going to outsource production to europe because of the "trade dispute". I'm laughing my ass off about trump-voters who loose their jobs because of this... I would like to see their stupid faces.
| I live in Halton Hills. This is total bullshit, most people here are Trump supporters and pro-america except for a minority of upper middle class liberals who love to virtue signal.
The news is such bullshit these days, they just make things up.
| >333590
So I give you my sources and you give me yours:
Washington post:
https://tinyurl.com/ycmvz7pw
USA Today:
https://tinyurl.com/yaumene2
Forbes:
https://tinyurl.com/y983l5u7
NYTimes:
https://tinyurl.com/y8bnfe57
Even motherfucking Trump supporter "Breitbart":
https://tinyurl.com/y8xtny6g
So what are your sources except what you heard on the streets of halton hills?
| I need to move to Canada before they don't allow Americans anymore..
| >>333956
Trade with me you sucker. Enjoy your lower pay, higher taxes, worse healthcare and cuck prime minister.
| >>334155 you'll enjoy it here. Everyone's a tryhard like you and votes to take it up the ass by our rapidly-becoming-facist government.
| >>334155
Canadian healthcare is superior to US-American - at least what is available for non-rich people. Higher taxes are not common peoples issue, as rich people pay the most. It is used for public infrastructure, education and guarantee some social standards which are al better/higher than in the USA. A lot of people in the US have a third world alike live standard. Their only hope is to get from time to time sth. from the rich, like dogs under a table.
| >>334155
Actually they have higher wages
Also health care is better. No one in canada is coming to America for healthcare. Sorry Hannity lied to you. Oh and trump is a cuck for the Saudi's and in turn ISIS. Hes selling them weapons.
| >>334155
If the USA were such a great country, people would not elect a president which campaing was about making it "great again". Actually living in the USA is shit for a majority of people. It's 3rd world standard. But electing Trump with his nationalist and racist rhetoric was no solution. Stupid US-Americans just set the cat among the pigeons.
Also I never heard about people leaving canada to live in the USA because they think it's better.
| >>334382
You are a retard. I know personally someone who went to USA for a surgical procedure because the wait in Canada was 8 months and they needed it now. Canadian healthcare is absolute shit, all the competent doctors move to USA to make double. We get the cracker-jack moron doctors from the third world who are not eligible to move to USA. I love how American liberals praise Canadian healthcare without having ever had to experience the shitfest.
| >>334530
I had to wait about 6 to get my wisdom teeth pulled. I'm currently still waiting on getting a crown for a root canal, about 4 months so far 5 in 5 days. Plus 400 dollars for it.
| So next time you try to pull anecdotes out of your ass remember they're meaningless.
| Typical waitlist times in Canada are over five months to see a specialist (that's more than doubled over the last 25 years), & on average 3% of the nation is on a medical waitlist at any given moment.
It's not veryy unusual to hear stories of patients waiting as much as a year, after delays, for operations they need in order to be able to work.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2018/06/11/canadians-are-one-in-a-million-while-waiting-for-medical-treatment/#45ba90a73e7d
| >>334557
Maybe cons shouldn't defund it on purpose to have that effect.
How about 10k ambulance rides? Oh don't have that?
How about having the same wait time and paying 30grade because your insurance doesn't cover the proceedure.
How about the "number 2 hospital" leaving your blind father outside because he can't afford a room stay fee.
You're so eager to be corporate piggy banks come on over and maybe get a gun for when you want to die
| >>334565
Certainly the American healthcare system has declined considerably from its glory days due to profiteering & bureaucracy, but the statistics simply aren't with you.
Firstly, the usual cost of an ambulance in the US is just a little more than one-tenth of what you describe, before insurance.
It varies per location & distance, but here is, for example, the rates from NYC fire department.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/fdny/downloads/pdf/about/fee-schedule-ambulance.pdf
|
A quick Google search would've told you that anything over $3000, before insurance, is rather extraordinary.
Secondly, the average wait time to see a physician in the US is still a fraction of what it is in Canada, despite being at an all-time high.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucejapsen/2017/03/19/doctor-wait-times-soar-amid-trumpcare-debate/#3bd5849b2e74
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_systems_in_Canada_and_the_United_States
| Thirdly, even the current liberal government attests that healthcare costs have outpaced economic growth in recent years, & that this has led to a decrease in the efficacy of Canadian healthcare.
Even the OECD attests that the safety, efficacy, & timeliness of healthcare in Canada is significantly inferior to that in the US, & healthcare costs on our side of the border are, again according to the OECD, only 88% more expensive, despite what you seem to believe.
| Canadian government & OECD data sourced from https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/publications/health-system-services/report-advisory-panel-healthcare-innovation.html
| That 88% being of course an average. Some people of course do pay far more, but they are the unfortunate outliers.
| >>334530
>You are a retard. I know personally someone who went to USA for a surgical procedure because the wait in Canada was 8 months and they needed it now.
Well, I'm sure, if you have enough money, USA is a paradise.
>all the competent doctors move to USA to make double.
It seems the USA has an issue educating their own doctors. They have to buy them with the bounty of their crussades.
| >>334530
>I love how American liberals praise Canadian healthcare without having ever had to experience the shitfest.
Liberals give a shit about healthcare, since they are rich. They cry all along with right-wingers about the evil canadian socialist healthcare system (which still is better! >>334587).
| >>334592
The government allows medical schools to maintain an engineered shortage of physicians, that's most of why they're paid so much more in the US. That said, the cost from the use of more expensive procedures is mostly routed to hospital administrators & the costs of drugs of course go to big pharma.
| >>334597
Also, did you honestly read a word of what I said? Other than cost to the patient, cost efficiency & cost related access issues, the US healthcare system is empirically superior in just about every metric, & even the cost difference isn't nearly so large as you folks talk it up to be.
If you don't even give a counterargument then all people understand you to be saying is "It's socialist, so it's better!" which in turn implies that besides that belief you have no case.
| >>334605
Thanks for supplying the facts. I think they are gonna ignore you because it causes too much cognitive dissonance.
| I'll also give a kick in but Canadians earn a lot less than Americans due to the mass decline of Canadian dollars for several decades now (which has not yet been resolved either). The US dollar's had very strong recent years only making the gap between Canadian bux to US bux even bigger.
| >>334678
The US (=oil & gas) Dollar was strenghtned by destroying the land by fracking. Canadians may "earn" less, but future generations won't have to struggle with poisned groundwater...
| MAKE JIM HORTONS CANADIAN AGAIN
| >>334730
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel huh? Do you know anything about the Canadian tar sands and the disaster to the environment or are you ignorant as well as stupid?
| >>334769
Fucking agreed
Throw out that plastic cheese and fake meat. Bring back actual good food!!!
Why must megaconglomerate corps ruin good things to pad their wallets?
| >>335005
>Why must megaconglomerate corps ruin good things to pad their wallets?
Because they have to in a capitalist system. One of it's dogmas is eternal growth. If fake meat and plastic cheese provides profit they'll produce it. They also will expand on other markets. Then you'll have plastic cheese and fake meat with toys or one-way dishes or something...
| >>335084 you can literally just not purchase products you don't like. Do you lack a will to do so? Companies rely on you purchasing you fool.
| >>335088
The issue is, that the more dominant a company is, the harder it gets to avoid buying their products. Big companies usually can sell their stuff cheaper than small ones.
| >>335214 I've seen in my country where the more expensive stuff is purchased over the cheaper. At the end of the day you decide whether you'll purchase the cheapest, and the market "law" about people buying the cheapest is stupid and does not explain a consumer society well.
Use your rights as a consumer and force the producer to either follow your needs, or help out producers that offer a better product.
And for big corporations, you can see what's happening in the States.
| >Use your rights as a consumer
I can't even barley pay a lawyer. But the companies can buy the whole court. There is no real "freedom" in "free market". It's just the freedom of the rich to rule about the poor.
| >>335525 Their paychecks depend on your purchases. Do I have to explain this in any more simple way than that? The ultimate death of companies nowadays is when consumers simply stop consuming so much from that.
>But big company have more money
But the same big company can collapse like a motherfucker like large retailers have been in the States for over 30 years now. Are you really telling me for a basic commodity like milk or a steak you have one and one only brand of steak/milk?
| >>335533
>But the same big company can collapse like a motherfucker like large retailers have been in the States for over 30 years now.
What happens to big companys if they collapse?
a) they get public money, because they are "system relevant"
b) they get overtaken by another big company.
| >>335533
>Are you really telling me for a basic commodity like milk or a steak you have one and one only brand of steak/milk?
You fell for the Illusion, that behind every brand there is a independend company. In fact there are companys, which sell the same stuff under different brands.
You also fell for the Illusion of an independend middle-class. In the end their profit is consumed by the big companys they work for, e.g. the supermarket-chains.
| >>335730 It just feels to me like you live in some backwater country because in most normal countries (I should know since I live in Europe) there's lots of choice and there isn't 1 company that can simply control everything. I feel like you've fallen into a meme (no different from /pol/acks) that everything is controlled by a few people and that's it. Go outside of where you live and learn what the world is like.
| As a bonus. The US creating giant monopolies has been fucking them in the ass for the past 30 or so years. I keep mentioning this but the attempt to budge everything into 1 corporation has lead to nation-wide bankruptcies with little motivation to try this again due to the worry of yet another failure. Supermarket chains have also been struggling there and small independent stores are becoming more popular.
| >>335770
>>335771
>there are no monopolies
>there are monopolies in the USA
Pick one.
I think it's good we have a common ground suspecting (private) monopolies.
What kind (I assume you're economically "neo-"liberal) fail to understand, is that your privatization rampage destroys the (estate) structures, that should guarantee your competition and customer rights (I spare out labour rights as neolibs proudly give a shit about it).
Also in Europe many companys "joined" recently joined
| >>336473
Your posts, besides being poorly worded and being very sparse on content, continually misuse the phrase "to give a shit". To "give a shit" means to care about something. To "not give a shit" means to not care about something. Someone needs to educate these savages.
| >>336670
Well, okay. Me comming frome evil socialist europe having problems to associate "giving shit" with "(positively) care about something". Maybe this explains a lot of the disturbed US-American self perception. So here is a suprise that may shock your disneyland view on the world: Most people don't want you to "give a shit" about them if it means that kind of shit you gave to the people in afghanistan, iran, iraq, vietnam, chile, etc.
No one want's your shit!
| >>336812 I come from the evil Capitalist Europe and I see your Disneyland view of how the entire planet works under 1 theory as ridiculous. Even in Europe there's so many different points of views and people can give a shit about another nation if we feel attached (like it happened during the early years of Syria's attacks). No one wants Socialist shit everywhere either but apparently it's muh best economical theory without any real theory on how it'll work besides "it's better".
| >>336840 capitalism is shit I am European as well. Socialism is only way forward. And don't bring up USSR as it only failed cus capitalist pressure and inefficient planning
| >>336897 Socialism is shit and failed every time. Capitalism is no perfect system but it can give more wealth to the poor and create a much better stable middle class compared to anything the Soviet Union has ever attempted.
| >>336921
Capitalism is shit and fails everytime. Socialism is no perfect system but it can give more wealth to the poor and create a more stable middle class compared to anything the capitalist world has ever attempted.
I think two world wars and imperialist/nazist/fascist regimes in Italy, German, Austria, Spain and Japan, which covered the world with War are enough arguments against capitalism. Just look in which direction it goes again these days...
| >>337358 Spain and Italy aren't good arguments since both created great wealth and developed the countries, even if in Italy the regime was forced to capitulate due to being part of the Axis.
I can see countless examples of the horrible backwardness of Socialist states (and the continuation of it in places like Venezuela). Can you give me an example of a Socialist state that doesn't stagnate? (China is more Capitalist than it is Socialsit so not a good example)
| I'm from the US, and I'm unarmed. Please let me immigrate to Canada.
| >>337530
Not being able to own a gun or have free speech is, you idiot. Welcome to the plantation.
| >>337543 by this logic most of the world is in slavery including country where I am currently living in, Japan. which is ridiculous.
| How America boasts that it is the shiny referential star for capitalism and how it is the best thing we have so far, is not at all different from how the ussr boasted to be the star to follow and why socialism was the best thing ever.
Well they both suck. They both suck. And while the world got rid of the illusion of of a star like ussr, it is about time to get rid of the illusion of an american style star.
That is why Trump is in the overall a good thing for the world.
| >>337550
Japan does, in fact, allow licensed firearms ownership for civilians. It's just a cumbersome process involving multiple training sessions, interviews of your coworkers & neighbors, & an inspection of your house.
If you don't understand your own rights you might as well be a fucking slave.
| >>337672
Your argument is empty and meaningless. The best never remains the best, there is always a better that comes along. Obviously. I'm always open to this "better" but I have not yet seen anything.
| >>337814
Just because you are unable to see nothing else than what is in America and when you hear capitalism you think of America, it doesnt mean that systems which take both from capitalism and socialism dont exist. Today. In many European countries. You like to call that capitalism, but it is not.
Cucks like you are what brought America in the sorry state it is now. Enjoy your accumulated fat for a bit. It wont last very long.
| >>337385
Spain and Italy did not create "their own wealth". Let me explain:
1/2 Spain was a bunch of barbarians that were civilized by Romans and later by Maurs. After the reconquista (which at first threw Spain back into barbarism) they started plundering the "new world", until they were beaten by the Brits and USA. Until WW2, they also plundered in africa (where Franco became big).
| >>338618 I'm speaking about the Fascist periods which indeed created wealth through good trade laws and economical policy. Franco did a lot of admirable policy and democracized the country during the later years of his rule.
| >>337385 >>338618
Italy once was the centre of the Roman empire, which once was a high level civ becoming more and more rotten due to the concentration of power while in parallel continiously expanding (here a reminder what also todays capitalism is about)
Then they benefited from beeing the religious and economic center (trade) of europe and a basement for military expeditions in near east. It ran down when crussaders were beaten, church lost meaning and america was discovered.
| >>338630
Fascist Italy and Spain were heavily dependent on western anti-communist/capitalist supporters and in the end the most by nazi germany (which economy was based on the speculation to conquer Europe, especially the east including enslaving and extincting "slavic subhumans")
| >>338638 You forget that Fascist Spain was not ousted after the war because it was one of the neutral states. Till the 70's Spain continued its existence and it was still very much as a state that was neutral. What happened during that civil war is that neither the Communists, nor the Nazis got a foothold in the country. While Franco is categorized as a Fascist, he's focused his policy entirely on stabilizing and developing Spain (which there's plenty of proof of him doing).
| >>338630
You probably are also are big fan of Augusto Pinochet and Suharto, aren't you?
Complaining about evil communists (or who you suspect for beeing it), but as soon it is about mass murdering or opressing people to "stop communism" every crime is justified to you. I know your kind and it makes me sick I have to share the world with you.
| >>338642 If the Commies aren't aggressive and leave everyone else alone I'll be fine with them. I find it cute how people claim the USSR was the victim. There's a very clear point where the USSR starts being treated as a threat and not as a friend and that starts around the late 30's, early 40's. That becomes especially true after they gain lots of German military technology while there's broadcasts of the Soviet Union expanding all the way to Germany and France.
| >>338640
With Franco the nazist won in Spain over the communists (with applause from western capitalists) when nazi-germany was beaten, Franco was just one of many western puppet-dictatorships in the name of anticommunism.
| >>338642 I've either seen militarized Communism or I've seen Communism with no real economy (like in Venezuela). The others became hybrids and tried to mix together Communism and Capitalism in strange ways, creating present China and Vietnam (neither of which I have a problem with, albeit China is becoming way too aggressive and screwing over any poor country it "invests" in).
| >>338646
The USSR was treated as a threat as soon the revolution began. You probably never heard about the western interventions like the polar-bear expedition.
| >>338640 lol Franco was hard core fascist dictator that killed many inocent people, death pits are still being discovered in Spain.
| >>338650 And have you heard of the avangard? How about all of the Westerners moving there in order to try and help develop the country? What about all the new technologies, city planning ideas, art and so on? Are those non-existent to you?
| >>338649
There was a approach in Chile to implement a peaceful, democratic and technologically advanced socialism. Guess what happned.
| You seem like the folk that have an issue taking responsibility for their own fuck ups. Always someone else to blame and your ideas are never wrong. Not being able to take criticism and running into a wall over and over again. That can categorize the Eastern Bloc in Europe perfectly well. No will to advance much which creates radicals that would rather dismantle than to deal with the same nonsense again and again.
| >>338659 that capitalism nonsense truly has no purpose in the modern world, the sooner we overthrow of the better
| >>338660 Good counterargument. That Capitalist nonsense is why factories that continuously lost money were fed funds. That's why there was "equality" in offering of services except the capitals tended to have the highest concentration of funds and quality services to offer. That's why there was even a huge inequality in those that worked prestigious jobs and those that worked what was considered regular jobs.
These are all problems that existed and exist in a Socialist state.
| >>338655
>it was threated as a threat by capitalist imperialist powers what a surprise
The suprise was, that the capitalist and imperialist powers managed to make themselves temporary attractive to the proletarian masses with reforms and gifts to fight and kill their revolutionary brothers and sisters - in the name of lies like god, nation, leader and race. They succeed. The revolution was stopped, beaten and the reforms rolled bac, and the whole world became capitalist time-bomb.
| >>338659
And you seem like the folk that believes in a existing unlimited, naturally god-given self-responsibility, ignorant and blind to the political, social and economic reality. You blame socialism/communism for idealistic/utopian nonsense but proclaim idealistic/utopian nonsense yourself to justify every shit which goes on. I sense a strong bias in your accusations against socialism/communis (or what you suspect for beeing it)
| >>338708 Do you think I go through arguing my every action through the free market or homo economicus? Do you think I fit a tantrum every time I don't get anything and yell how my free market rights are removed? Things are situational and economical theories can't explain my daily life. I see a utopia as the most destructive condition in humanity. Any nation close to a Utopia ends up going through a giant crisis.
| >>338708 And you also use naturalizations. "Socialism will win simply because it is the advancement of Capitalism, by nature". "By nature a Socialist and Communist country will be more fair and equal than a Capitalist one". Does it sound familiar, chap?
| >>338751
Real socialists/communists do not "naturalize" their idea. They want humans to write their history on their own. "Philosophers only interpreted the world differently, but in the end changing it is what matters" (Karl Marx)
Unlike conservative, liberal and nazists and other douchebags proclaiming spiritualism, biologism or other anti-/pseudo-scientific bullshit.
| >>338904 Marx himself says that by nature Communism is superior to Capitalism. I don't see a greater way to exemplify this concept than that. I could also go on to say that a lot of modern commies are aistoric in that they apply a social theory from several centuries ago without much thought on the conditions today.
Posters here themselves show how they undermine modern concepts as simply "bourgeoisie tricks" with very little analysis and understanding.
| >>338922
>Marx himself says that by nature Communism is superior to Capitalism.
You should learn to distinguish between political polemics and scientific claims. I admit that Marx makes pretty often use of polemic statements. The communist manifest is a good example. Sometimes he even made a diclaimer that he's going to be polemical.
| >>339687 Just let her be. It is the usual rhetoric you see everywhere for folk like that who would very soon start lecturing you on capitalism when the topic is about the idiocies of the american people condensing now in the reality of a president like trump who takes decisions that impact everyday lives like the topic OP posted. The trumpsters will always applause, no matter what.
| >>339760 I am in no way defending Trump. In fact lecturing about Capitalism and citing Trump as a good source of that would be stupid as a lot of his policies fuck over the economy, rather than strengthen it. It feels like the US wants to go to the old times of being completely isolated.
| >>339770
Trump is a creature, born from capitalism. He is the living proof for what a lot of intelligent people criticize capitalism:
The division of people into two major classes, the capitalists on one side and the proletariat on the other side, leads the between struggling middle-class, the "bourgeoisie" (and unfortunately also the proletariat) straight into reactionists arms.
"Liberalism" is only about the freedom of the rich on the backs of the (artificially divided) poor.
| >>339904
The markets become more and more saturated. Labour becomes more and more automated. Capitalism needs soon a "reset" to go on. This already happned two times in a large scale with two world wars. The political empires fall and rise, while the economic empires continue their existence (often, but not necessarily, even owned by the same capitalist-family clans.)
| >>339904 >>339912 Let me stop you right there. I am not debating through Marxist theory and if you told this to anyone else they would also react negatively. There are many people that disagree with Marxism and how it tries to understand the political and economical world (with good reasons). You can debate and be against Trump without being a commie.
| >>339965 you call also that also heiny a commie, that doesn't invalidate her arguments just because you don't agree with Marxist view of politics
| >>339989 Neither has that invalidated my arguments. If we go arguing about this we're just going to be stuck at pointless debates for hours without much useful things being done.
| >>339965
>I am not debating through Marxist theory
Sounds pretty fundamentalist to me. You don't have to be a marxist (Marx himself said he is none) to consider marx theories at least partly have some points that can explain what happens in the economical/political world. Most capitalists understand this. They are basically materialists too. They just use religious, nationalist and racist lies to fool their class enemies. Divide and conquer. U think Trump believes in his speakings?
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| Trade dispute has some Canadians feeling more patriotic at the checkout counter.
The town of Halton Hills, Ont., may seem like an unlikely locale for a burgeoning consumer movement. But the tiny town northwest of Toronto finds itself in the vanguard of the latest trade battle between Canada and the United States: a movement to stop buying American.
https://tinyurl.com/ybbtxrt8