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so about child concentration camps in US...
| This is a common thing for democratic and undemocratic countries. All the US has done is put light into an issue that isn't talked about much. From the ex Eastern Bloc to the rich West in Europe. Asia has many countries that do the same. No need to mention Africa or South America. The truth is that conditions for people arrested for illegal immigration are very very rough.
| Travel to mexico and help those poor people you uncaring piece of shit. Do you know how many Mexican children are sex trafficked every day? They have a lot of child labourers there too and many of them don't have enough to eat. Sell all your things and five the money to them you racist.
| Who cares about dirty Mexican's they should be used to fill the wall
| Yeah we should probably get rid of those. Like you know, today?
| Nah I don't really care
| Thats a bit of a stretch of a comparrison.
| >>328976
>everyone does it that's why it's ok
Welp give sources plz
Also that's the good thing about Trump, he shows what policies Obama supported.
But just through Trump people realise how it is.
And people called Zizek an Idiot because he would vote for Trump over Hillary.
Hillary would do the same shit and worse things internationally, but better because she is a good politician. She is bought by big money bourgeois corporate leeches, but she knows how politics work.
| >>330884 I never said it's okay. I just said that it's now a revealed problem that hasn't even been considered.
Here's a quick google of some articles to prove my point.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/cp/reporters-notebook/migrants/hungary-treatment-refugees
http://www.dw.com/en/their-last-resort-refugees-in-greece-go-on-hunger-strike/a-39725102
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/839146/Ceuta-Morocco-European-Union-border-shut-immigration-crisis-North-Africa
| Its kinda fucking awful. The whole "these are animals" rhetoric, and the whole trump debacle ever since he opened his mouth during the campaigns. Comparable to internment camps, except they're separating kids from parents. The US is supposed to set an example, and if they were smart they would help the country the folks are really coming from like Guatemala, Colombia, etc. Instead we keep giving mexico shit.
| >>330888
Your examples are hungary (who have a reactionary party in power), And the EU which is subject to the demands of their constituents States and many of those states have reactionary parties in power like PiS in Poland, and ÖVP in Austria, who's chairman Sebastian kurz who has said that he wants an axis of the willing of Italy, Germany, and Austria against migration (look at that boy dog-whistle).
| https://youtu.be/aclwR-d4pT0
| >>331374
https://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/06/venue_cancels_alabama_musician.html
http://thehill.com/latino/393674-oregon-national-guardsman-gets-disciplined-for-facebook-post-about-executing-immigrant
| Are you gonna say the tweets are fake or some shit now bc this is a very real problem
| I just want to add, this is not really the problem you think it is.
These children are actually separated because border control wasn't sure if they were truly with the parents. Child trafficking happens a lot, and to ensure that the children are legitimately theirs, they are put into processing. These "concentration camps" are actually just holding cells for probably a few hours to a day at most. After that children are generally sent to areas that look more like boarding schools
| >>331374
Nothing really happened honestly, their just staments made by humans being humans. Honestly killing people isn't anything new unless you really don't want to accept human nature and how it can't be changed. There is way too many variables in the equation.
| We should just throw them inside burning bronze bulls in the name of Baal Hammon if you ask me.
| Problem is exaggerated, really. Though i think we should blame ICE for not deporting them fast enough, so they have to stay in those camps.
| >>332327
I think it's more that people don't trust the current reactionary government to not go full fascist and just kill them, also if ICE officials are incompetent and dumb as all hell, most because a lot of them flunked out of being any other type of armed force or law enforcement, in short ICE is the grade F meat of law enforcement.
|
| Also i kinda don't understand how's the system works. Why can't ICE just send all migrants they caught to the southern border and throw them out instead of making them suffer in those camps?
| >>332349
Why don't the illegals just not try to cross the border if they are so mistreated? If I commit a crime the police don't just bring me home nicely.
| >>332389
It's both cheaper to get them back across the border, and then there's the moral responsibility of the US as the world's most powerful country to use that power humanely, instead of putting refugee migrants in internment camps alongside the criminal counterparts that often travel with them. Either way you cut it, the handling is sloppy and amoral.
| >>332979
>>332897
You aren't addressing my question. If the US is so "inhumane" why don't they stop coming? Is it because their own shithole countries are so bad they would rather be mistreated by our government? Why don't you faggots push for government intervention in Mexico instead of falling for crocodile tears?
| >>332995
Because if you look at where these folks are coming from, it isn't just mexico. Its places like Colombia and Guatemala, places with recession and drug wars left and right. It makes the US seem like a relative safehaven, hence why I said refugee immigrants. They throw all their money on the travel here too so they can't pay the fee for naturalization nor permanent housing and english classes. So they enter illegally and live in spanish speaking communities.
| >>332995
Even if it's a fake cry for help, the US ignoring our southern neighbors issues makes us look irresponsible with our power. Taking in refugees and bringing them into our workforce seems the least we could do in comparison, especially given our history with funding rebel group's down there and ignoring corporations that turned agrarian nations into money printers.
| Can we make a new country were the children can live peacefully or something?
| >>333016 I wish. Every *inch* of land on this Earth is claimed by someone with a functioning military. Maybe somewhere in antarctica?
| >>332995
Because rich bitches from the US support the drug mafia in Mexico. People there have no chance against the power of the US-bourgeoisie and their mexican henchmen.
| >>333182
Look at countries like Vietnam, Iran, Cuba or Chile what price people pay for resisting US imperialism.
| >>333189 look at countries like Germany, South Korea and Japan. The US has helped out countries too.
| >>333251
The USA bombed German cities and civilists. They wanted to make Germany a deindustrialized agriculture country. Thanks to the soviet competitors they did not. In order of that the USA also quickly integrated nazi scientists and agents into their anti-communist war all over the world.
In South Korea the USA supported a dictatorship that opressed people and make critical persons dissapear.
In Japan US-Companies supported the military-industrial complex. When Japan...
| >>333312
...turned unexpectedly against the USA in WW2, which the USA won, they droped pointless two nuclear bombs on hiroshima and nagasaki. The USA are the first and still the only country which used nuklear weapons against civilists.
The same is for nazi germany: The USA gave a fuck about it. Capitalists were glad that Hitler wipes out evil communists/socialists. Fun was just over when they realized that they don't get money back from GB when they loose the war.
| >>333313
That there was peace and wealth in germany, japan and southkorea was not because of the USA but althought the USA.
Now, since the cold war is over things go back to normal, and the USA will continue their destructive foreign policy for the sake of their global operating companies. The USA is no democratic estate. It's a service provider for global operating private companies and their oligarchy. Everything else is just a sometimes good, most times shitty byprodukt.
| Ami go home! Leave us alone, we don't want your poisened "help" anymore. Take your disneyland, MC donalds, microsoft
and military shit with you. Life is much better without it.
| Germany, South Korea and Japan would not have been able to develop without the US's investments. This is fact. East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany, this is fact. North Korea is times poorer than South Korea, this is fact.
In fact, a lot of Europe was in decay after WW2 and the US invested major money into a lot of the countries so they could recover. With the atom bomb literally no one knew what it would do. It was in part a scientific test.
| And one final thing, the US has not been relevant in every country for more than 2 decades now. The world's system changed and it currently depends where you are in the world and what connections your country's made. If your country is developed enough it can set its own precedent for influence. If not it has to be influenced. There's no longer a divide in East and West (like you yourself mentioned). The only ones saying that the US is influencing everything are commies nowadays.
| >>332999
>Taking in refugees and bringing them into our workforce
Why do you hate the working class? They are already suffering enough unemployment as it is.
| >>333312
>US bombed German civilians & cities
That was started by Churchill's chief science advisor thanks, who was a non-Jewish German immigrant & fabricated research to support the tactic as means of demoralizing the German people.
>Japan entered the war unexpectedly
The US embargoed Japanese oil imports over their war with China & annexation of French Indochina. The world really ought to have considered the possibility, & FDR may well have...
| ...eager as he was to get the US involved in the war.
>Needless bombing of Japan
Afaik, eery indication before Hiroshima & Nagasaki was that the war would drag on with an invasion of the Japanese home islands, a slog that would've cost millions of lives. If the kamikaze doesn't convey the point of 'death before surrender, even in the face of clearly insurmountable odds,' It's hard to say what does.
| Yeah, the US throws its weight around a lot, but that is exactly what it means to be a world power. If you don't exercise your power, even if you have it at your disposal, people tend to consider you irrelevant.
FDR set the stage for the American economic empire as an alternative to a British or French colonial empire, a transcontinental nazi reich, a Union of Stalinist Socialist Republics & a Japanese military dictatorship. I'd say for most folks it was the most promising choice.
| I'm glad people are finally acknowledging that my country is an evil cartel supporting piece of shit, bu I'd rather we just clean up it's act instead.
| >>333329
>Germany, South Korea and Japan would not have been able to develop without the US's investments. This is fact.
No this is speculation
>East Germany is significantly poorer than West Germany, this is fact.
>North Korea is times poorer than South Korea, this is fact.
US-economists were afraid to loose the race against the soviet union and it's satelites until the late 80s. It was the turning point, where it became clear the west will win the economic race.
| >>333662
Also the gap between east (GDR) and west germany was much smaller than north and south-korea. It doesn't make really sense to compare them. People in the GDR did not starve. The economic growth was sometimes even bigger compared to the west. East germany start becoming poor when they were joined. I suspect the west to set an example by ruining the GDR industry on purpose.
Korea is a totally different story. Until the 80s the North was economically stronger than the South.
| Morally/Ideologically/Humanely the soviet Union alread was massively hurt by stalinism and did not manage to recover, which was finally clear after the prague spring.
In the end it was the Afghanistan Intervention which destroyed the soviet union economically, even thought the west countries still pays a high price with dealing with the religious fanatics and dictators they raised.
Central-Planned economy was not ideal but not the main reason for the fail. What do you think are...
| ... data hungry companies like google, facebook and co. there for? You think they give you nice service for free? No! The collect personal data to sell it on the new information market which is used by other big companys to plan their production, like in socialism. Also these plattforms are pretty monopoly alike without real competition, like in socialism.
| >>333677 Bull fucking shit. And I can prove that with GDP data. East Germany was not even half as developed as West Germany.
| >>333692 What do you mean it doesn't prove development? GDP per capita and GDP per person is one of the only objective ways to measure development. Or do you have some arbitrary "superstructure" or "Marxistlenninist" indicator that is used economically to measure development?
| >>333697
GDP and also GDP/Person says nothing about education, healthcare and distribution of wealth.
| >>333698 Healthcare, education and distribution of wealth are dependent on the funds of the country thus on the GDP. The amount that can be spent for a person in this regard is tightly connected to that. I suppose one thing that may scare you is that in those indicators the Western European world actually reached higher amounts compared to the Eastern Bloc. The same is applicable to East and West Germany.
| >>333703
Why should I be "scared"? Basically I give a shit. I just think the post-cold war reception of the soviet/eastern/socialist economy is far from objective. Afterwards it was clear that they lost the race, but it was not all the time that obvious. And it was no that much disastrous as the neoliberal propaganda proudly proclaimed (I got the feeling they become more and more silent as the time passes and it looks like their system fails too).
| >>333728
The good thing is that without the soviet union neoliberals can't blame evil communists for the rapidly increasing flaws of their system. Unfortunately for this case the good old nationalists, racists and religious fundamentalists are back and try to scapegoat communism/socialism by misinterpreting liberalism as such. This cheap trick was already applied by Hitler and his fellows.
| >>333728 No one is talking about neoliberalism from the economists for many years exactly because of what you just said. Neoliberalism has died. However, that does not disprove the fact that past the late 60's, the Eastern Bloc became increasingly less developed compared to the West. There's the famous speech of Gorbachov about how the Soviet Union "can produce salami out of the factories" after he became embarrassed to see the amount of appliances available in the US.
| >>333744 And so I don't leave with a rotten feeling in my mouth. Healtchare was indeed on a high level, as high as the West. That's pretty normal and I think state funded hospitals does not actually hurt the economy or production in any way since it's simply a service. (it depends on the services though as things like ISP's have been proven worse in the hands of the government)
| >>333761
I take issue with this note about healthcare. At least in the 90's, life expectancy in the USSR was 5-7 years shorter than in Western Europe (& for that matter even lower than some Central American nations), infant mortality rates were 3x what they were in the west (& for that matter higher than in Sri Lanka), & one in six rural hospitals didn't even have running water. One in four didn't have sewage.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3766310?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
| This despite the fact that the USSR had more hospitals & physicians per capita, & the state spent more than 12x what the US did on healthcare.
http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/10/3/71.full.pdf
| Hospitals in Moscow & Leningrad did have equipment on par with anything in the US, & saw better numbers than these, but major cities were the exception, & most civilians were stuck with the equivalent of 3rd world healthcare.
| You faggots arguing irrelevant points. Shit's fabricated. Fuck off we're full.
| OT, I don't doubt that there actually are detention centers like this, but as >>c5c25c put so candidly I think most Americans would rather punt the problem back to Central America or elsewhere.
I myself am of the same persuasion, we might as well send them to somewhere that accommodates immigrants like Spain, where they'd actually speak the local language & thus have an easier time integrating anyway. I'm sure the cost of transport would be less than that of confinement as well.
| Golly gee let's trust the media again to tell us the truth. You niggers never learn.
| >>333941
But all information comes through media. Do you suggest everyone to live like amish people or travel arround the globe to find out "the truth" on their own?
| >>334278
Some sort of reform of the culture around the media is called for.
In previous eras there was often a Cronchite or similar figure who could be trusted implicitly. Whether it took statutorily restricting ownership of news media, founding new ones or imposing some restrictions upon them, I'd be on board if it seemed like there was a plan that would restore some corner of the mass media to that level of trustworthiness.
| >>334305
Well in my country we have public media, which is controlled by councils. They have good investigative formats but also issues with neutrality as the councils represent the (elected!) parties. Private Media is mostly shit. They belong to the oligarchs and only report boulevard/yellow-press stuff paired with neoliberal and right propaganda. Alternative media are either far-far-right or moderate-left to far-left.
| >>334278
Citizen reporters via microblogging platforms. The incentive for traditional media to abuse their position is enormous.
| >>334310
As nice as a public broadcast for news would be, we already have that in the US and it isn't nearly as popular as a channel that caters to the confirmation bias that americans are so custom to. Plus under the guide of a council, a public broadcast seems particularly vulberable to some 1984 ministry of truth bullshit.
| >>334628
1984 is something people in China have to be afraid of. In the USA it's more like Huxleys "brave new world".
| They literally denied a US senator access to the camps and stated that he should "come back in 2 weeks"
I read that as >"our abuse of these children is so egregious that we need 2 fucking weeks to cover it up"
https://apnews.com/dcee71c50b404c66ad5804b5e5807e9f
| ^ that's a good summary
| >>335142
CNN, fox all of them are fake news these days. Conspiracy theory is just a term those in power use to discredit people seeking the truth instead of swallowing the lies.
| It's buck wild how willing Trump cultists can claim they're not all racists then start cheering and applauding their fuhrer claiming that an entire race is just rapists and animals.
| >>335418 how is it conspiracy theory when there are videos of CNN reporters and other people caught on camera talking about how they manipulate news and spread false information?
| >>332349
Vaguely back OT, the answer to this question is because rules, regulations & statutes dating from administrations willing to let some illegal migrants stay (including Obama's) demand that they do so. The main point of contention regarding these holding centers is the Flores Agreement, a court settlement from the Clinton era, which, RAW, debatably requires holding children separately from parents. The current interpretation of it is designed to villainize & get rid of it...
| ...because it affords migrants other protections. So by pushing back against the Trump administration many are falling for the trap of "Well, let's just get rid of this law that makes us do it this way."
For further details see
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/20/17484546/executive-order-family-separation-flores-settlement-agreement-immigration
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| shouldn't we like do something? I don't think this is ok