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It's Karl Marx birthday today
| I really got to admire Karl Marx: is incredible how an ideology that has made so many people die and starve to death, still could be considered «good».
| President of China delivered a speech today on K.Marx btw
https://youtu.be/VDMBIBvgZng
| >>271102 I'll go diff route but give me a human regime that has no lead to massive deaths. And don't pretend that the apple falls further from the tree in Commie times because massive death happened there too. Deaths only lowered in the later half of the 20th century and this is ignoring the Middle East, Africa and parts of South-East Asia.
Happy bday to weird hair guy I guess.
| It's not communism that starves and kills people, it's the dictatorship.
Stateless is the way to go.
| Happy birthday Karl Marx. Indeed one of the greatest philosophers and also economists with an ability to analyse and deduce conclusions in a logical way.
Maybe humanity will produce again minds like that, who knows.
| I'm going to go find a antifa trap soyboi, punch in his face tell him to get a job, take his, communist flag and burn it on YouTube live.
| >>270987
Well, unfortunately Marx analysis on the ideology you described (capitalism) did not lead to overcome it.
Maybe some people real need a 4th Reich, a 3rd World War and an 2nd Holocaust to realize that capitalism is shit.
The sad thing is that everyone who knows better will suffer from this shit... and there is a chance that mankind will be eradicated or at least thrown back into stone age or some post-apocalyptic mad-max shit. Or stuck in "Brave New World"/1984 competition.
| >>272222
or maybe you just want a capitalist gulag to turn resistant people into brainwashed pro-capitalist citizens. Because for the sake of capitalism every crime seems legit, because communists are the ever evil demons from hell.
Or let the people each other for the sake of "their" country, god or "race". Hallelulja, opium for the people. Capitalism is so cool. If islamists weren't such douchebags they would terrorize capitalists instead common people. They are perfect henchmen.
| >>271325
Estate is not the issue here. It is always part of the solution. The Problem is an autocratic and nationalist estate.
Democracy, Transparency, freedom of information, Internationalism and independency of estates core institutions (executive, legislative and judicative) is what real-socialist estates lacked off usually. This usually was a heritage of former post-feudal, post-kolonial systems and a reaction to capitalists brutal resitance.
| >>271102
Ahahaha you are such a dumb nigger. I hope you one day look back at your younger self and feel shame.
Capitalism was solely responsible for uplifting millions of people from what is today considered poverty. Saying otherwise is among the most ignorant things you could possibly say.
| >>272288
>Capitalism was solely responsible for uplifting millions of people from what is today considered poverty. Saying otherwise is among the most ignorant things you could possibly say.
You are the ignorant here, who forgot that capitalism led to two world wars with massive pain, death and destruction.
Beside this, real socialist dictatorships always led out of opressive post-colonional or post-feudal and early but underdeveloped capitalist societies to a world leading power.
| >>272347 Depends on the countries. The Czechs for instance are poorer than what they were beforehand. And we don't know for sure how the European side of things would've developed without this regime either. One thing that the regime messed up with in a lot of the states is that the birth rates plummeted significantly and now many of these same countries have a very large declining population. There's also the issue that the economy was under constant deficit.
| >>272350 I think it's more naive to try and put labels on x or y but we do so to create our own perception of "good" and "evil", qualities which are not objective in any shape or form. I think it's more reasonable to say that since the creation of the human rights in the last century, as well as the focus of trying to create general wealth everywhere there's been a strive to improve upon everyone's lives. The current collapse in ALL countries (commie or not) is a result of the
| >>272352 ideology behind this crumbling under reality. After all, when we perceive that things are fine, we worry less about things but each time reality strikes, our idea of this ideal world collapses further and further until we reach the lowpoint of depression and frustration.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUFMtZwg6ZI
| Man if communism killed 80 to 100 million people just imagine if it was fully implemented.
| No one acknowleged the great birthday video I linked. :(
| >>273034
The question is if it was communism that killed 80 to 100 million people or just bad circumstances at where it was tried. Theoretically it is not the communists job to get rid of monarchy and feudalism or colononial opressors and only in a specific Nation. This is something the bourgeoisie should do. Communists were meant to overtrhrow global developed capitalism in an international revolution by the working class against the capitalist class.
| >>273034
And btw. pls check your numbers. I think they even surpass the maximum asumptions of serious historians. 80 to 100 million is how many people were killed in the 2 world wars INCLUDING victims of stalinism (which had its maximum in the "holodomor" with 3,5 to 14,5 million people)
Also consider that most negative characteristics of stalinism and maoism are adopted by capitalists and right wingers theses days: Autocracy, mass surveillance, propaganda, orwellism, huxleyism.
| >>272347
>capitalism caused two world wars
World War I was caused by Austro-Hungarian aims to annex Serbia and the assassination of Franz Ferdinand which resulted from that. World War II was caused by opposition to Hitler's expansionist aim for more lebensraum and the German invasion of Poland. Of course, WWII is easy to blame on capitalism, but there was (((a much larger issue))) behind it.
| >>274286 didn't Lenin write an article titled "Imperialism, the highest stage of capitalism" ? I think that's what she meant
| >>272347 >>274286 cont.
>real socialist dictatorships
What defines a "real socialist dictatorship"? Hitler did create a national socialist dictatorship which led to Germany being Europe's largest power without doubt, but then there is the "not real socialism" argument. The Soviet Union was a world-leading power as well but it was arguably much more communist-leaning, same goes for China. Cuba and the DPRK are both far-left dictatorships but neither are world-leading powers.
| >>274286
You mistake "cause" for "trigger". The Austro-Hungarian and Serbian conflikt with the assasination of Franz Ferdinand was a Trigger, but not a cause.
The cause was capitalism because it is expansive and competitive which led imperial estates to colonisation of lesser developed countries for the sake of ground ressources, cheap labour (slavery) luxury for the bourgeois (coffee, fur, cocoa, etc.) and last but not least to have new markets. Competition led to World War I.
| >>274305
Oh, and the probably most important aspect was the social-economic impact of industrialization on society, that questioned the power of the old feudal elites, that opressed the majority of peasants and bring up the new bourgeois elites that opressed the new majority of workers that mostly were peasants that went into the city to work in a modern facility, since farming also improved during industrialization. This is what Marx also described in a very precise way.
| >>274288
Exactly. Even thought that Lenin is a much more controversial character than Marx, since he was pretty reactionist who thought he could beat his enemys with their methods without realizing that things may become exactly the way he supposed to not to want them to become so. On the other hand he recognized the need of capitalists mechanisms to develop economy, which worked pretty well with his "new economic policy". Also he ended the pointless murder of WW1 for russian ppl.
| >>274286
>(((a much larger issue)))
Your mom? I've heard triple parenthesis stands for your fat mom. So (((she))) caused world war 2? Interesting.
| >>274371
At least I was in a partly reasonable school, not the private inzest Napola brainwash centre where the triple paranthesis g/u/rls come from after they were shitted out by (((them))).
| >>274410 leftypol and pol really do have a lot of similarities. Either side seems to have a boogeyman that's responsible for all the world's woes and either side goes out of its way to show how their ideal world is somehow going to happen once the invisible boogeyman goes away. You know Marx's quote about the ghost of Communism can apply to actual commies like you about capitalism or about nazis about Jews. The difference is but a thin string.
| >>274423
Our boogiemen are the same just by different names. The small business owner and the Jew down the street are not to blame. Wouldn't it be nice if we could realise who our common enemies are?
| >>275976 the only thing commies and fashists agree on us that neoliberalism is cancer that should be eliminated. But other than that two ideologies couldn't be more opposites of each other
| >>274423
The fine difference here is, that nazists goal is to kill specific people in deathcamps or enslave them, while the capitalists goal is to grow and expand profit by exploiting workers. The goal of communists/socialists on the other hand is to overcome a system which theoretically is a something that could happen by choice and without killing anyone. If nazists brand you as "jew" or "subhuman" it's pointless to debate with them since it's esoteric zealot bullshit.
| >>276026
If communists call people "fucking capitalist exploiters" you can check it if you look how they live, what they own and how they treat the people that work for them. You can blame communists/socialists that they failed in an enormous scale to bring peace, freedom and wealth, but you can also blame capitalists on failing to provide these things on the long term too. There is room for discussion. But there is no point in debating things that are already shit from scratch...
| >>276030
like nazism, fascism, racism, nationalism and religious fundamentalism. There is nothing good about these things. They're all point- and worthless concepts since they value people on totally random and artificial charecteristics. Who decides what is a "jew"? Who decides who is a "true believer"? Who decides who belongs to which "race" or "culture"? It's all retarded voodo shit. I tell you who decides this stuff in the end: Guns, Bombs and ideologic zealots.
| >>276042 Your lack of understanding culture as a social concept appears once more. The criteria that for instance Nationalism functions on is a cultural one.
There's a critique from some scholars regarding globalist theories for they can't cover a proper reality and instead set out their boundaries to a vague specific. If you really want to apply Marxist theory well, don't treat each country and situation the same.
| >>276075 This would also help establishing dialog with people better. If you're simply going with a very aggressive rhetoric without much care for the context of the people in the particular place you're just going to piss them off.
To give you a basic idea of what culture is by the way. Culture is the ability to articulate meanings behind concepts, objects or other meanings as a way to understand the world.
| in nazi germany you could not stop being "Jewish subhuman", while in socialist country the only thing that was asked for you was to stop exploring others and share your fruits of labour with everyone equaly. That's why it's stupid to even equate both ideologies
| What you still don't see is that since we live in a society where everyone wants to steal and hurt the other to survive no economic system or ideology will ever work as it's not perfect and it will go to a point where everything will be of a few. The dictatorship of proletariat always gets corrupt and bourgeois always slave their labourers.
Maybe what works the best with mankind is a dictatorship such as the one from Marcos Pérez Jiménez of Venezuela.
| >>276085
The economic system Nazi Germany had wasn't what we understand as «Orthodox Socialism», it was a version of Social Democracy suited to Nazi needs. There was the possibility for private companies but the state had an eye over it, what most countries do these days.
| >>276085
In socialist regimes you're not asked to «share your fruits of labour with everyone equaly», but to give any means of production you have to the state so it can control it. You have your fruit but the machines you have to get them won't be yours.
| >>276315 That's true. If we're using Marx's formula for the abstraction from labour, you don't own the tools, you have to work set hours and the state can take away land they've let you use at any time. Production is determined via a plan and when products reach a store, those who are higher in the administrative or party pyramid get much easier and reserved access to the products.
| >>276315
The issue was the lack of democratic structures and distribution of power of the estates institutions. It's the same issue with todays big global playing companys. They give a fuck on peoples liberty, democracy, distribution of power, freedom of choice or participation. Capitalism is based on the assumption that people are assholes, which is more a self fulfying prophecy, reproducing itself than an actual fact. This leads to totalitarism on each level of society.
| >>276849
The masses become a stupid selfish mob, the elites become corrupt selfish cleptocrats and the single leaders become totalitarian tyranns.
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| let's celebrate one of the greatest philosophers of our time!