This thread is permanently archived
Let's build an ideal society.
| No laws
| Full transhumanism is real and now you don't need to rely on other for dopamine and you might aswell fly far away and for the rest of time experiencing the feeling of one million heroine shots a second.
| >>245126
People strive for dopamine, anything that doesn't produce it bores you. Heroine was really adverse effects but feeling like you're taking heroine doesn't. Feeling AMAZING for the rest of eternity is the pinnacle of what humanity should strive for.
| >>245242 Constant pleasure does not equate to a perfect society but to a constantly collapsing one. Suffering brings forth ideas and progress.
| If you always feel good, and always have whatever you need or want, then what's the point of living? Life has to have at least a little bit of challenge!
| An ideal society should honor and value intelligence far beyond physical strength.
| Oh hey! We have the same ID! Hi!
| >>245268 >>245275
Why? Society doesn't need to exist if everyone is happy and constantly get what they want
>>245277
YES
| A society steeped in honor and tradition where the governing body only functions in defending that society's borders. A republic driven by local communities that elect Representatives to help govern. A well armed and well trained society where war history, self defense and economics are the standard in education. Work places and schools operating as meritocracies, never celebrating the weak of mind or body. A nation of free men and women that own their own land.
| An ideal society would be "just". A just society works with this assumption: each human is "self-serving". The actions of a society must utilize the "veil of ignorance", where a person can step away from their bias and look at different walks of life with "empathy". If every human is capable of thinking like this, then even if they lose out in the short-term, they would understand that it's all working to sustain the "self" of another human who might not have the same advantages.
| When thinking about an "ideal", be as abstract (or general) as possible. Imagine the world ended and there are only ten other people in the world. If you were to create a set of rules for people to follow (and had the ability to enforce them), what would be the underlying principles that would govern how you structure this new society.
| Would you be a "fair" and "just" ruler? Or would you be a tyrant, relying on a might-makes-right morality and making it so the same rules don't apply to you? How would you define "fairness" and "justice"?
In other words, sell the public an ideal.
| Lolicon should be legal.
| >>8131ee
Breeding is mandatory because the human race is going to die if there are only 10 people.
| An ideal society is all the good parts of all the cultures minus all the bad parts.
| FREE FOOD EVERYDAY
| Neo religion
| Why would you want a new religion?
Don't we have enough of them
| Ideal society is where people have control about their own lives, not as a political simulation or promise but as an economic reality instead.
| The end of mankind
| FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM
| A perfect society would require either a change in human instincts, or people that aren't human at all, being created with those instincts. Humans, and other animals, are born with the idea of self preservation, which can easily cause problems. I understand that self preservation is needed to survive, but an alternative, group preservation, where descisions naturally lean towards what's best for the group, not any individual in it. It'd make a perfect society easier to function.
| >>246215
Humans have more knowledge, higher onsciousness and technology that could destroy earth. Individual self preservation already is less meaningful than collective. People are ready to kill and die for their self constructed nations and gods.
| Fuck the government! Anarchy - mother of order!!! (＠＾◡＾)
| U now what. FSociety
| Multiculturalism is the biggest problem. General populations simply can't handle any major ideology that isn't on par with their own. Thus we have consistent conflicts and fights with one another. Now the only thing outside of this that creates problems is world leader's greed to try to own more "land". I think on both ends we're truly in for the worst.
| >>248730
Multiculturalism is (and ever was) more reality than an ideology. I don't see it as "the biggest problem". The problem is that stupid people don't see the chances and only the constructed issues.
The biggest problem over all is the increasing gap between rich and poor which is not only geographicical. Poor people in "western" countries are played out against poor immigrants. Instead standing together they get sedated or poisoned with nationalist, racist and religious lies.
| Once automation hits, ideally people will be able to go into fulfilling work advancing the arts and sciences or dedicate themselves to caring for their children.
I want a world where no one is forced to do shitty busywork just for the chance to eat.
| >>248765
Wealth gap is an entirely natural hierarchy that is the inevitable result of differences between individuals and groups. You cannot level the playing field without cutting down the tallest trees to let the smallest trees see the sun. If you have any kind of moral compass you might recognize why such an action is evil from many directions.
| >>248765 Man I wish I could live in your world full of sunshine and rainbows.
>>249143 You should read Jack Donovan's "A Sky Without Eagles"
| -this is not a debate tread-
| >>249438
OK then an ideal society would not have retarded threads like this that ask a subjective question as though there is a real answer.
| Free Health care
| Be happy make happy empathize properly
| >>249143
The dimensions of the poor-rich gap we're talking about have nothing to do with "natural" or "normal" Categories that btw. always should be used with caution regarding the development of technology. You know that some things changed massively. Did you ever hear about neolithic, agricultural industrial and currently informational revolution? They provide possibilities that are far away from beeing "natural".
| >>249143
Also I don't believe in good vs evil. I believe in interest conflict between economic classes. And the lower classes have the "natural" right to cut down the high trees to get too some of the light.
| >>249413
Also literature suggestions from me:
"The Iron Heel", "Martin Eden" and "The Seawolf"
all by Jack London
| So do you want to build an Utopian?
| >>249413
Haha, I just looked up for your book and the author. It's typical right-winged new age esoteric/religous bullshit like hitlers "my struggle". Even the Bible, Quran and Tora have more worth beeing read instead of this sad whining about "opression of (white?) manhood"-fairytales. Better read Marx/Engels. Even thought they may not offer you a final truth, they are much closer to it with much more substance.
| at least Marx actually built a solid theory concerning our society.
| The culture of a society is much more important than it's politics.
| >>250933
Well politics belongs to the culture of a society. Both are heavily dependend on the economic circumstance. Agricultural societies have more cultural/political similiarities with each other than to industrialzed societies. Same counts in reverse. If there is no industrial capital, there are no capitalists. For agricultural societies this means usually feudalism. Political power is always with those who own and rule over the economic key factors like ground or machine.
| >>251137
It's quite logical. Culture is at least determined by economic circumstances, not the other way around. Culture is something immaterial. It does not generate material values. It is work, ground and capital that does that in almost every current existing culture. Diffrent economics leads to diffrent culture. And to solve Problems you sometimes have to change something. Dogmatism is a dead end - not only for "socialists" but also for capitalism.
| We should start enslaving women for sex and milk.
| >>251192
We need to speed up, pal!
We need to spread our seeds and produce more women and have those women be slaves push out another kid and start fucking those little girls RIGHT NOW! IMPREGNATED THEM AND MILKING THEM DRY
| >>251149 If we're using Kantian and in turn Hegelian logic that wouldn't be true. Since our ethics are our reality builder then that would mean that those meanings we create are what we also foresee as real. Marx used this formula to claim that work was the ultimate ethical thing that people deal with but I'd argue it's one of many.
Culture is an important basis on how people function and even if you're a commie poster, you would understand how different each Socialist state was
| due to the different culture in each place. It's quite silly to just claim that we work on the material side of things alone.
| >>251256
Yeah, thats what marketing, advertisment and propaganda tells people. Making them wrong promises, selling mass identities for cash to the people that suffer from the inner emptyness because of working in a shitty job to effort this estranged fast-food identity a brand, religious, nationalist or racists movements offer you. People in the end work for the material side of things, they are just educated not to see or understand it. Capitalism is Materialism in disguise.
| >>251254
>since ethics are our reality builder
Nope. Our reality is build by dialectic between superstructure (where ethics belong to) and basis (economic circumstances)
>Marx used this formula to claim that work was the ultimate ethical thing
Nope. Work is according to marx a production factor beside capital and ground
>Culture is an important basis
Nope. Culture belongs to superstructure
Base and superstructure - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_and_superstructure?wprov=sfla1
| >>251355 You haven't disproven that Socialist countries were vastly different with this argument. All of these countries had marketing, advertisement and propaganda based entirely on the party and yet how everything underwent in each one was very different, even down to how industrialization was being focused. (or as Commies would call it, electrification)
>>251450
Marx spent a small portion of literature on a philosophy of work where he foresaw work as a ground for identity
| within workers. You can even see that on his analysis about workers and their relations to tools, the factory and their colleagues. It would be intellectually dishonest to ignore this Kantian formula. If you use Marxist arguments alone I'm sure you'd catch in me in a corner but that's why I go outside the Marxist perspective. It's because like I mentioned in my above post, there's things that cannot be explained on Marxist theory alone.
| delete all billionaires
| Traps, lot's of bois and traps
| >>251467
This threat is about ideal society, not about the failed attempts to establish it.
>>251468
Work itself has lost its identity providing characteristics in the capitalist society as masses just become more and more dumb elements of a increasingly automated clockwork they don't understand.
Instead class identity takes place, which is fought by the bourgeois class with backwarded and pseudoscientific/esoteric lies like racism, nationalism and religion.
| >>253579
>racism, nationalism and religion
Yeah Jews really need to cut it out with their anti-goy racism, their Israeli nationalism and their backward religion.
| I think such society is just impossible to the point of thinking about it is nothing but a hassle. Because in every functioning utopia there lies a dystopia beneath the layers.
| For starters, no to EU.
| >>254252 The merkelreich is about as well thought out as the globalist shitstains that want to tear down society in the name of the poor, poor rapefugees.
| Some refugees now are a terrible representative of the rest of the lot, while EU elites like Guy Verhofstedt believes that we should be "proud" in being European, and that he's a proud European feminist, while consecutively shitting on nationalism, which, coincidentally, can unfuck the situation that Merkel put us in.
##_hidden:Aoi##
| >>254269 The countries that accepted the refugees did that on themselves and it has nothing to do with EU policy. The EU set a certain amount of refugees to accept but the number was very small for each country. Stop being a fag just because Germany and Sweden are incredibly cucked. Most of Europe kicked the refugees towards Germany. Maybe you're just some butthurt American whose ideal Germany is collapsing in front of his own two eyes.
| >>254286
Funnily enough, I don't believe in an ethnostate, or Nazi ideology.
That doesn't mean I agree with far left ideology either.
Take a look at Poland, they're just about fine while the UK have to resort to making the Investigative Powers Act just to cut down on "hate crime" (Which by defenition, means something that is *percieved* to be hateful or targeted towards people)
I have no reason to stand with extemis, while at the same time, my own country is just nutjobs.
| >>254315
>Take a look at Poland, they're just about fine
No, they aren't. The extreme right government just is about to eliminate any free press and independency of courts. So no one will investigate them on corruption and failed politics, ask critical questions and law will be stretched how the government wants it. Minorities are scapegoated for everything that goes wrong and all democratic elements that could be help people against the oligarchy degenerates into ochlocracy
| >>254252
We need strong EU, but...
- with more direct democracy elements
- stronger lobby for employer and customer right
- weaker lobby for particular interests of private industry and banking
- more efficiency
- less burocracy
- fight private monopolys and oligopolys (instead pamering)
- fight against tax oasis's (instead pampering them).
- less neoliberalism and neoconservativeism, no nazism.
- emancipation from the USA
| As Plato stated you can not build an ideal society-Utopia without building an other dystopia.In other words to creat a perfect society you must first creat an oppressed working class that will support the foundmentals of your society.
| >an ideal society
Non-free and proprietary software is abolished and outlawed, thus giving back full control and freedom to all computer users.
| >>254425
Plato did not knew or imagine there will be things like industrial production, electricity, information technology and nuclear bombs. So, even if you interpreted him correctly (which I doubt) one could question the validity of this interpretation.
| >>253997
There is some truth in your statement. On the other hand it does'nt really make sense to me stop thingking about how utopia could look like or be established or opposing it by just shitting arround like a giant asshole justifying your selfish goals and pissing on ethical values like humanity and humanism. It's somehow twisted logic that basically is nothing but a self-fullfying prophecy, proclaiming everyone on his own and against each other out of privileged situation.
| >>254414 So, as an example, why should I vote for a left wing ideology?
I'd like to hear your side of this, at the very least.
| In Poland, like in most ex-soviet countries and satellites, there is no real "left-wing ideology" you can vote for. The bourgeois conservatives and neoliberals scapegoated left movements for everything that went wrong during and after the soviet era, which was thankfully overtaken by the extreme right. In the whole of central and east Europe there is politically a corrupt hegemony of reactionists opposing neoliberals and conservatives, while in the west it's the other way around.
| >>254488
>why should I vote for a left wing ideology
1nd: This thread is about "let's build ideal society" a.k.a. humanist utopia (left-wing ideology) and not about "let's accept the bullshit in the present world or amplify it" misanthrope-dystopia (right-wing ideology)
2nd: Don't believe in self proclaimed "pragmatics" that discredit concurrence with cheap rhetoric about ideology, utopia, stalin, etc. They are more interested in keeping the status quo instead of progression.
##_hidden:Aoi##
| >>254568 A utopia is not exclusive to the left. The meaning of utopia itself is something ideal yet unreachable. That being said, I'd say present day is very anti-utopian for both sides of the political spectrum as both sides are met with constant disappointment.
| >>254604
Well of course you can redifine any word even into the opposite it's intentional meaning. Maybe some people really believe that permanent war, mob rule, despotism or oligarchy and the right of the stronger to opress the weaker or gas jews is somehow ideal or at least leads to utopia... It is just ridiculously stupid to think that way, as circumstances can quickly turn into an entire diffrent direction. And in current politics leftists are practically just a minority.
This thread is permanently archived
| This is not a debate thread. Just post your ideas on what you'd like to see in a society. I'll go first.
If you are punished for a crime you did not commit, then it's the exception and not the norm, and, regardless of who you are, you have the best leeway when it comes to clearing your name and receiving compensation for any harm you may have incurred due to the results of the mere allegation that you did something you didn't do.