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I dont feel it
| I dont know. Im gay but I dont go flauting it, its never caused an issue for me.
Stay safe out there.
| Identity politics are shit. Both liberals and fascist suffer from it.
The only identity that matters is class, the rest is esoteric bullshit.
| The class meme is also just that. Just enjoy life and make friends.
| >>214203 the problem is not everyone can enjoy life so easy when 1% gets 90% of all revenue being created, while productivity is on a steep rise.
We life in a society where we are afraid of the next wave of automation instead of being happy because we can collectively enjoy the fruits of that labour.
I would like to live in a society in which we would be able to use the potential of 100% of humanity instead of only 10%. with 10% we got Einstein, Mozart, penicillin and the internet
| What would we get with the help 100% of humanity?
And we are able to give humanity at least a worthwhile life. The west throws away as much food away with which we could feed the whole world 3 times.
Doesn't we as humanity strive for bigger things? For the stars?
Don't we want to tackle global warming without the capitalist mode of production and the profit motive?
I think we, as humanity, can and should do better. Not only for us, at least for the people who are coming after us.
| >>214220 Humans are as much individual as they are collective. Expecting that we can achieve the same level of equity is little more than idealistic. Even in societies where the rule of the single is enforced, diversification happens. You can't make every single person learn the exact same thing at a constant time. Our ability to work with others is also very limited.
Global warming happens in all societies with industry. This is not unique to capitalist ones. Farming pollutestoo
| >>214248
>Humans are as much individual as they are collective.
100% agree!
>Expecting that we can achieve the same level of equity is little more than idealistic.
Depends how you define "equity".
>Global warming happens in all societies with industry. This is not unique to capitalist ones.
Welcome in year 2018. There is no other society but capitalist (in a mentionable ammount). One could even say there never was another one, except failed approaches.
| >>214248
As Lenin said, there is no free individual without a free collective and there is no free collective without free individuals.
Communism is not about everyone having the same (equity), its about everyone acting according to his ability and everyone getting at least what he needs.
|
Also, its not about learning everyone the same things, its about equal opportunity.
Its also not about working with others more than now, Its about a different mode of production. Based firstly on needs and not on profit.
Of course Industrial societies which are based on petrol pollute the earth and create global warming.
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Its just that we live in a mode of production (capitalism) which functions without logic, but with the profit motive. As long as you as a rich guy can just pay some politicians money to get tax breaks for selling oil (while trying to lobby to rise taxes for renewable energies) you will do it. And society will still run on petrol, use oil for 80% of all products, even if we are in mids of the 6th mass extinction on earth.
|
Capitalism was good for some time and brought us more freedoms compared with feudal times. But capitalism isn't serving us no more, we are serving it. It's time for the next economic revolution, and this revolution is called communism.
| Regarding the industry argument, my point was that even when the commie countries were up, there was the idea of man having to finally defeat nature after the "class war" is over. It's within the ideology itself.
And I'd say profit alone can't cut it for the different companies and firms anymore. The global ones have shown that they have big political motives to many of the things they do. A Deus Ex interpretation of how things develop is a lot more accurate.
| Politics and economy used to be unified and then regimes separated them, then new ones came to unify them again. It seems that in the modern climate politics and economy are going to be thought of as completely needed by one another, whether you want massive regulation on private business or the private business demands political regulations itself. Whatever side you pick, you'll probably have blood spilled. That to me is a lot more sad, and "class warfare" is not adequate for this
| So, not everyone is opressed equally. It really depends on things like where you grow up. Depending on what field you go into you might still feel like you don't have to deal with opression too often. However, there's definitely a precedent for minorities being discriminated against on a wide scale. If you're not bothered by any of then good for you, but it doesn't mean other people don't deal with prejudice regularly.
| >>215089 The biggest issue is that oppression happens in a lot of contexts. There really hasn't been any good regulation about it (the Communist experiment failed to resolve this). I think the closest we've gotten to equality is in the Scandinavian states.
| >>214628
An androcentric world view which is about "ruling nature" does not stand necessarily in contradiction to environmentalism and naturalism.
It's a question of sustainability.
>>215442
The scandinavian states already are considered to be socialist countries by global ruling market radicalists. The live quality and equality will have to decrease there (it already does) to compete in the global competition about low wages and lowering workers rights.
| >>216066
Or they could just adopt protectionist policies and not force their citizens to compete with slaves? Ya know, like Trump is doing literally right now.
| >>216781
>protectionist policies
>good
All protectionist policies do is fuck up the economy for all sides and this has been proven again and again.
| >>216819
You are totally right. Some people just don't understand that globalization is an unavoidable process in a capitalist world. To make sure that also the masses can benifit from it it needs internationalism, solidarity and class conciousness instead national protectionism and religious/racist opium/lies.
Instead of destroying the machine that enslaves people, give people control over it. This is the main idea behind socialism/communism, nothing more and nothing less.
| >>216781
It won't work. Protectionism will always lead to decrease of wealth, inner conflicts and opression or global cherry-picking by the militarily most powerful countries. Protectionism is also a big factor why socialst approaches failed so far. The market is global and a global operating company does not only benift from lower standards for workers and social-economic circumstances but also of acces to all kind of geographic, geologic, geothemric regions.
| >>216863
Can you explain more? Protectionism has a strong incentive to be discredited since globalists stand to profit heavily from it. Bonus: explain why restricting the free-flow of people across borders is not essentially the same line of reasoning.
| >>216938 When you for instance enforce tariffs on a stock you're trying to restrict that stock from reaching the country for the sakes of the same stock within the country to sell more. What ends up happening though is that the stock in the country can't meet with the demands at hand and ends up increasing its price exponentially. At the same time due to the price being higher than what would be the foreign stock the potential sales plummet further.
| >>216942 Then other businesses that rely on this stock also have to stop buying so much from it or buy as much as they used to at a higher price. Thus the price of the goods they produce also increases. This process continuing ends up having a negative impact on sales and a negative impact on the production cycle. And while the argument for migrants exists at the same time there's also the argument that certain people will not work the most basic jobs compared to others.
| >>216944 In the jobs that require higher education (which is an increasing process overall) you're going to still meet up with nationals rather than foreigners more often than not. The real issues I can see Americans having with Mexicans are cultural moreso than economical.
| >>216938
>Protectionism has a strong incentive to be discredited since globalists stand to profit heavily from it.
So you admit there is a profit due to globalization? Wouldn't it be more reasonable to distribute this profit fair instead of restrticting it?
>Bonus: explain why restricting the free-flow of people across borders is not essentially the same line of reasoning.
Because geopolitical borders are artificial restrictions which contradict individual freedom and human rights.
| I'm legit weeping at the comparison of Trump's undocumented immigrant head-hunting to tariffs
| >>217023
The walls of your house are an artificial restriction that that contridicts individual freedom and human rights. People should be able to go where they want when they want. Who are you to say they cant come in your house when they want?
| >>217480
You goof just ignore the fact that my house is my private property and ideally the result of my own work. A nation or belonging to it is hardly comparable with this. The nation is neither my private property nor my individual achievement. For me it is an historical heritage, which was initially an achievement against feudalism but massivly failing at control/regulate capitalism. I just had luck not to be born in a bigger "shithole", and I want to share this luck.
| >>217591 Then you could say that a country is the result of the work of a whole community of people that worked for it. Sometime by interfering against other communities. Your communist view is that we should all forget our differences and work together. I'm basically all for it, but I think it's in human nature to have some distrust in the other, therefore it's impossible right now and I think it's a good thing because you can be sure someone would profit from it for his interest.
| >>218225 Anyway, what I think is that capitalism isn't inherently bad, but ours has definitely gone to the shitter. It's too extreme and unregulated because globalization has been economical before being cultural or social, therefore it'simpossible to have any effective counter-power emerging, so the only way to really fight back is to do some really shaddy things like hacking or corporate warfare.
We need more regulation on a global scale because that's were the problem is.
| >>218225
>I think it's in human nature to have some distrust in the other, therefore it's impossible right now...
I think that this "human nature" thing is to much used as a poor excuse to justify sociopathic behavior. I agree that humanity never will be "perfect" but this doesn't mean we have to idealize the worst characteristics like egoism, greed and selfishness. "Trust" is a word that even exist in the terminology of capitalism. Solidarity is also a real thing, which works.
| >>217591
No dude don't be xenophobic. Jamal and Pedro have just as much right to share in your good fortune as you do, you just got lucky being born in the right place at the right time allowing you to own a home in a developed nation. Do you really think your home ownership is due to anything but luck on your part?
| >and I think it's a good thing because you can be sure someone would profit from it for his interest.
I don't want to live in a society with egomanic, selfish people that have a worldview limited to maximize their own profit at any cost. It just doesn't work for me.
| >>218469
I'll support any politics that aims on giving Jamal and pedro the same chances as me to become their own house in the country of their choice.
I'm also engaged in development country programs, and I saw how hard people work, while their politicians, which are mostly marionetts of western companies, destroy any effort.
Just check the origin of materials in your mobile phone and how the price is composed. African trade-unionist miners are shot by police during strike for it.
| In my opinion while we're selfish for ourselves we're also selfish for the local people around us. Depending on how you logically construct your beliefs you could also become selfish for a cause. In that regard you can see political ideologies. It doesn't mean we don't work with others and far from it, we are selfish thanks to the fact that others exist to justify that as selfishness is an act of thinking for yourself within a group, thus it is also a social action.
| >>218503
But this local selfishness does not work with the current economic and technological reality. We consume products that were shipped around the world (which doesn't always make sense, but partly it does).
An extreme approach to regionalize industrial production was in maoist china, which failed in a catastrophic scale. Maybe technology could solve this once but not in capitalism.
I feel more connected to workers in other countries than to the rich people in my own country.
| >>218497
So sell everything you own and give it to Jamal then. Don't be selfish, you hypocrite. Don't you know the device you are posting from was made by slave labour? Get rid of it and donate the money to poor Africans who have had their lives ruined by your western imperialism.
| >>218925
Don't be ridicolous. If I sell everything I own, then I have nothing left to live. I already was in the situation of gaining "public charity", which in my opinion is designed to trap a small amount of people there as determent to the rest. I already pay much taxes btw. and I'm totally fine with as long it's used to support poor people. Unfortunately much is spend into warfware and subvention (direct and inderect) for companys that pay relatively less taxes than me.
| >>218925
I prefer that the rich contribute to, maintain and expand the ladder they climbed up, instead of cutting it as they feel like arrived at the top. Because exactly this is the case everywhere. In the US, in Europe and in Africa. We have a global operating and networked bourgeoisie, and if workers don't unite they are lost and will end up fighting each other for god, leader, nation and race like stupid dumb idiots.
| I feel like every discourse about this issue is always ending in capitalism vs communism and it fucking triggers me because as long as we are divided like this, thing are never going to change and we are playing the game of the corporates fucks. But I can't accept someone who thinks that capitalism is the devil and should be purged without thinking that, maybe, capitalism ended up like this because is as been corrupted. Any society can be corrupted and I think communism - >
| >>225561 communism, with his collectivism can be even more subject to corruption because you make all ressources pass throught the same authority
| >>225567
But this authority is supposed to be confirmed by a majority democratically. Initially the councils (=soviets) which ruled in order of the russian revolution for a short period, had even imperative mandates, which means that members could unelected.
Also capitalist accumulation of ressources leads to monopolism which as result means a concentration of power in a decreasing number of authorities. Give it 10-30 years and world is ruled by a couple of "entrepreneurs".
| >>219597
If you sell everything you own you can go on welfare because you are privileged to win the lottery and be born in a country that has it. You indirectly benefit every day from the slavery of third world people, the least you could do is show some solidarity with them and lower your standard of living. Hypocrite.
| >>218466 Capitalism has no trust whatsoever. Only interests, which extend as far as increasing capital is concerned an no farther. The concept of trust involves a group of people who willingly give up personal interest towards others, based on the conviction that it will not be abused, aware that benefit will not be imediate.
| >>225561
Yes, capitalism is the devil indeed. Just as it is comunism. They both are shit if implemented fully and in their pure forms. One because basically transforms people into beings willing to kill the next because of 'muh property' and the other because it transforms them into lazy parasites wanting to leech on 'our common resources'.
A hybrid is the true way, something that gets from both of capitalism and comunism.
| >>231407 But if that is what many countries have right now: a hybrid between socialism and capitalism. The true free-market capitalism does have neither regulations nor the extensive control from the state that today's capitalism has. Many politicians over the time have taken «socialist» measures to save their falling capitalism. How else could the middle-class and many proletariat from the USA have such a good life, with luxuries such as iPhone® and McDonalds®?: socialist measures.
| >>231671 Those many countries you mention are actually only a few. The northern european ones. America is the most far of all in this concept. And no, iphones and mcd is not what you measure it with.
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| >>231148 There is actually an economical theory that talks about trust so you're not right on that one. Trust is a necessary tool to sometimes make economical decisions.
>>231708
The Cold War created a surge of Socialistic policies like welfare and pensions that persist in almost every single country in the world at this point. Minimum wage is tightly enforced as well as a concern for worker conditions. That's why richer countries abuse poorer countries where they don't have to
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| Apply those kids of rules. At this point the economical theory about satellite states has become a complete reality as places like Eastern Europe for Western Europe (Central Europe is gradually getting better conditions so no one wants to work at a car company and get underpaid for harsh labor, these companies have moved to Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia and this point). I'd say the problem is specific countries are going to stay permanently satellite (like ones in Southern America).
| >>232763 Economy theories are bullshit. In those, startups are a good thing and should be able to adapt fast to demand and be successful. Truth is that 90% of startups cant make it past 6 months of life. Economy theories say free market is a good thing and should drive diversity and competition and consumers decide the best product. The truth is such thing has never been true, the result is always prices going upwards and consumers consume only what is presented in front of them.
| Economy theories have always dissected down to an atom all economy crisis and bubbles, giving us a very clear picture of whys and their logic. But not even once have foreseen an economical crisis instead in each occasion calculating a prosperous golden age.
Trust is a concept capitalism doesnt have. It might exist some speech about it somewhere to soothe the masses, but everyone has eyes to see what is really there beyond the fireworks and the marketing propaganda.
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| >>233288 Are you an idiot? Economy theories exist and branch out exactly because they don't all agree with Adam Smith's work. If we're talking about the theory I was talking about regarding choice, you're presented with a set amount of options which can decrease or increase depending on factors like information.
Oh and Marxism is also an economical theory before we continue. So if you're one of the commie posters and you're saying this I will have to mention this.
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| >>233295 >All see economy as prosperous or don't talk about economical crisises
What I mentioned in >>232777 is an economical theory about dependant and dominant states made by a Brazilian.
There's also theories regarding economical crisis where an economical crisis is considered the peak point where the economical theory being largely used fails to succeed in further development and creates a bubble.
| >>233298 First off, maybe your mother produces idiots as you seem very comfortable with the term, more than what is healthy.
Second off, check the result of the economy theories in the world of today, where even you ask yourself 'how did this happen?' when you look at that famous 1% of the population owning most everything that the world has today.
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| >>233304 You haven't refuted my points regarding the economical theories. You're the one claiming that all economical theories talk about how happy everything is and how it works well. The reason why people constantly make new theories is because everyone see an issue with what's happening and are trying to figure out what would help understand it or develop things so these issues don't persist. The only useful idiot is the one that doesn't educate themselves.
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| >>233304 Second is that there's been plenty of economists talking about the growing problem with the 1% which is why ideas like progressive tax exist, but as it turns out, that alone is not enough to guarantee a fair system. The latest of failure of Neo-Liberal economy has made economists struck with awe as to what should be done now and as we speak new ideas are born. The % of wealthy people that you speak of exist in many societies, Socialist, Capitalist and Primitive.
| >>233307 That economy theories constantly change and get replaced does not play in their favour, but only adds up in how invalid they are. Constantly. Trying to figure out... Still? Must have been real shitty theories indeed then. Or very incapable people.
I do not need to refute any of your marketing fluff. The reality speaks for itself. Educated idiots chant in unison the welthy % have always existed and ignore the pace of change and the rates in inequality. The theories say so.
| >>233317 If you close your eyes and yell to pretend they don't exist I'm sure they'll go away. Genuinely people have always existed in a bad position but we posess the knowledge to truly understand that.
And the reality does speak for itself as the same % of rich people are closing in their cicle as people from all sides get angry. How about a political theory then, since you seem to like hearing this. There's the idea of political cicles where left and right are in a constant
| rotation. You could carry that over to the wealthy and the poor and how things cicle out between both sides depending on the situation. Even Socialist countries cycled through this where a rich elite was born from the party.
The only question I have now is why you don't want to do something yourself? People that do nothing but complain tend to allow the ruling force to continue as they are. People that do change take action.
| >>233322 Exist they do. But there is a difference about their existence when it is 1% and when it is 30% or 49%, albeit a subtle and fleeting one.
Politics is the whore of finance. The words will always find reason to side with who already has wealth and why it should be so.
And you are actually right in saying that speaking is not the same as doing to change the world. I am an electronic engineer producing tools for people to live better everyday. What about you?
| >>233357 I'm studying in university and then hoping to deal with my country's corruption to hopefully make life where I live better for everyone else.
I do feel like it's an annoying constant cycle we're stuck on with wealth which has a boomerang effect for the rich and poor. That's also why I think it's a good idea to find a way out of this situation before people start killing each other.
| >>9c6cb6 You speak the truth about economic theory, lot of people think they are bullshit because our capitalism is bullshit, but there's really good people trying to solve this problem. But, fir exemple in my country (france) we have a problem with the elite always using the same 10 guys that have the same view on economy wich is "we need more production, growth yadada" all the shit that's here to exploit us because "we aren't competitive enough"
| >>231671
IPhone and mc donalds are no indicator for having a "good live". They're just brands that fool people by let them eat shit and let them pay for ideas that are stolen from public research/development while giving nothing back.
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| Im a black American, and despite many BLM radicals telling me im oppressed I just dont feel like Im actually oppressed.I enjoy life in the US. Am I doing something wrong?