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Anti-fascist protesters rally against racism in Italy
| > http://m.dw.com/en/anti-fascist-protesters-rally-against-racism-in-italy/a-42533636?xtref=https%253A%252F%252Fwww.google.lt%252F
| Alerta, alerta!
| >Racism
>Guys who were shot are charged with homicide and desmembrement of an ITALIAN girl
Viva l'Italia! Criminals should just be doing forced labour already
| Well, they are just stupid. I hope conservatism in Italy will prevail
| >>151508
This is FALSE, the fascist shot people in a bar because he saw black people, but they aren't the ones who murdered the girl.
This sicko shot random guys.
t. Italian
| I hope antifas really will be treated as terrorists one day.
| >>151545
Ha-ha. I still wonder why people are so stupid, if they believe that antifas are fighting fascists, and not just all right-wing people, and also that they are not worse than real fascists.
| >>151549 no anti-fascist attack regular conservatives even though they sometimes wonder into fascist territory.
| >>151551
Yeah, tell it to those antifas in Berkeley assaulting conservatives, or doxxing them in the internet, or that Bernie Sanders supporter who tried to shoot GOP meetup. Not sure how is it going in Europe tho, but i don't think that Antifas are really different from each other across the world.
| >>151561
Too bad that they are so loud and have a lot of free time, so they are influencing mainstream media and politics.
| Antifa is the reason why Hitler did nothing wrong
| >>151879
Follow your leader
http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2010/08/follow-your-leader-by-esonax.jpg
| >>152173 my leader is this https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSiilhUAS7ke8Cup_20J34vQaxtwdGD-kzJzZ7ylsGuq8XWleHZ7McWLx1x
| >>152205
The great events in history always occur twice. The first time it's a tragedy, the second time it's a farce.
You forget that there is still capitalism with its unsolved inherent contradictions like class struggle and at least the false believe in eternal growth and fair competition based on private property of capital.
| >>151555 omfg stupid ignorant American cucks.
Antifa in the US is a bunch of liberals who punch some alt-rightists, fascists and conservatives. But mostly people from the alt right.
Over here we have real fascists who need to get beaten up because they burn houses, kill random migrants, rob places from seemingly migrant people, attack leftists at their homes, try to assassinate politicans, etc.
Antifa in Europe is mostly real leftists, not some Neo-liberal cucks who want to fight.
| >>151447 >>151452 >>152416 >>151530
also; Alerta Alerta!
the only good fascist is a dead fascist.
Why can't y'all not atleast be nazbol. It has tradition and the means of production in the hands of the workers. Or if you like markets y'all could atleast be market socialist.
But no, y'all have to be some bootlickers who fight fucking liberals, they are stupid I agree, but they aren't the biggest enemy. They might be annoying and vocal in the US - over here we don't even have them.
| >>152211
What anachronistic shit is that? A monarch? No problem, I love shooting Tsars...
As long there are dumbasses who follow lazy „highborn“ clans, it justifys somehow to wipe them out once and for all during a revolution.
| >>152422 it seems the radical leftists are only ones who can actually do a job and kill the privileged monarchs throughout history
| >>152430
I envy countries that at least got rid of their fucking useless monarch/aristocrats families like the bourbons and romanows. I mean, I don't like capitalist's too, but I have to admit it's a big step forward gaining political power by economic property instead by „god“ and family boundaries (even thought nepotism is a continuously reappearing problem in capitalism).
I'll never understand the hype about the British royals, Japanese Tenno, Saudi Sheikhs, etc.
| >>152537 I have no problems with current Japanese Emperor he can stay. He litteraly has no more power than a regular citizen.
| >>152651
then go to several Arabian countries, or to the DPRK, if you don't mind what is left of communist folklore/surface there. Have fun in your fucking Monarchy.
I'd prefer having a communist democracy, which could work inf not bombed away by frightened/jealous capitalists and their fascist, racist nazi and religous fanatanc dogs.
| >>152648
The japanese tenno was a puppet of japanese industrial-military complex, and later for the us occupiers. But also he was/is a human who could say: "without me". Instead he choose playing the puppet and fool people. I have to admit that this tenno is more sympathique than the prime minster, but thats the issue with monarchy: they may be one, two or sometimes even three good monarchs in a row. But the third generation are always degenerated douchebags.
| >>153345
Oh, o.k. just read that Akihito is not Hirohito. Still a useles puppet. What is his purpose, except exist and gesturing in public.
| >>153338 I've been to Saudi Arabia four times by now, and I would totally live there, people are great, care about their culture, and, well, they're all very happy with no complaints about the monarch, the only difference between a monarch and a president is that the president 98% of times fuck everything up, while the monarch is trained and knows what he is doing
| >>153338
>communist democracies bombed away by evil capitalists
Good grief, Totalitarian Communists (that is to say, your common garden variety communist) seem to do a better job of destroying "Democratic Communism" than Capitalism ever could. Who are you kidding?
>>155016
To be entirely fair, the DPRK can be described as dynastic... But yeah, they're on a whole new level of stupid none the less.
| DPRK is literally Nazbol dynastic stalinist militarist regime
|
| Italy had anti fasc stuff happen during the 60s from what I recall. Albeit this case is far too different in context
| In Italy there is a lot of racism towards Moroccan people because they are everywhere in Italy and sell things without permission and often don't act in one of the nicest ways tho people are angry about immigrants here because they belive that they are stealing job to people and just helping the Mafia gain money when a lot of them just use italy as a temporary place to live in before going to Switzerland, German and other places like that
| E fanculo Ｒｅｎｚｉ
| >>158725
It is funny too how all the hipsters argue about outsourcing and want their things being produced elsewhere for cheaper prices, but do not want people from from elsewhere come to consume pdoduced goods where the hipsters live.
| >>158761
Could you rephrase your statement in a way that gives more sense and consistence to non autistic people.
| >>159068
1. Country A prepares goods in country B for lesser cost. Selling them then in A's market for normal price. (Wages and living standard relation: A>B)
2. People from B seek to go work and and live in A, mainly because they want a better life and know that they get paied more in A for the same kind and amount of work they did in B.
3. People of A do not like and do not want 2 at the same time when constantly seeking to increase occurences of 1.
4. Point 3 is false...
| 5. ... because of false start conditions. Points 1 and 2 should be considered atomic and not separate. At least acording to current preachings about free markets, free trade, free movement, equal oportunity, and similar word circus.
| Mamma mia (-。－；)
| After all, Fascistaliandi was a socialist party
| >>160649 "socialist" everyone called themselves socialist to attract the voters even if they have nothing to do with it
| Islam is a problem
| >>160682 ooh, excuses, excuses, study a bit, please, Mussolini was leader of at least 2 socialist parties
| >>161696
plus a stupid one.
The german early social democrat August Bebel said once: Antisemitism is the Anticapitalism of the stupid people.
You could also replace antisemitsim with fascism as both goes pretty well along (except things like zionist fascism).
| >>161841 >>161696
sadly enough thats true
which is probably why nazbol would be the best tactic to be successful
| >antisemitism is bad, goyim
>here, choose this meme ideology from some russian faggot immigrant
| >>162779
I don't.
Successful in the sense of tacking power and giving the means of production to the people. Maybe even archive a society without money or classes.
| >>163218
>giving the means of production to the people
It always ends up with giving the means of production to the state and everything gets worse. So capitalism is unavoidable, because it's the most natural economical system, all other systems are worse.
| >>163848
Capitalism relies on private property of industrial machines. There is nothing „natural“ about it, because in nature such machines don't exist. That's a really dumb argument.
| >>163848
Also, big companys have increasing characteristics of central planned economy, and still are very efficient. They are operating international fooling democracies constitutions, benefit from dictatureship and political instability and giving a shit about human rights.
| >Europeans think they aren't facist
>while their gov'ts fund "antifa" (really anti-nationalist) groups and their beat cops carry sub-machine guns.
>meanwhile, they point to public schooling scores and call Americans dumb
L O L
| >>163742
>this world is just impossible
You're wrong: it is unavoidable! Capitalism is the thing that is impossible. This was proven by Marx, and no non-voodo economist could give arguments against that.
An Alternative Scenario is a regular total extinction of human civilizations to reset markets (which could also lead to the annihilation of humanity).
| >>164453
>while their gov'ts fund "antifa" (really anti-nationalist) groups and their beat cops carry sub-machine guns.
Where did you get that bullshit from?
| >>165105 Marx formulated that through the indicators he saw Capitalism would fall and it didn't. More than likely because he didn't expect that it had dynamics and could incorporate policies that would stabilize worker life. After all, that's how Marx's work can be summed up. Philosophy of work. No one's disproven anything. Theoretical work is a far outcry from reality. And so far all that's shown is that capitalism functions in every regime today, including Communist ones.
| >Marx
>Proved
I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
| >>164224 is this guy for real? Do you think without machines we could supply 7 billion people with all the products they need? There's nothing inherently capitalist about improving production. You think the Soviets built tanks with their hands?
| >>165886
>There's nothing inherently capitalist about improving production. You think the Soviets built tanks with their hands?
Is that why the Soviets starved? They improved production? Economies based on supply-and-demand are much more efficient than command-based economies because they respond to well, demand, necessity. In communism, going to have to wait for the next census 2 years from now for the crop adjustment bureau to authorize improving food production. What a joke.
| >>167003
>Soviets starved
Dont confuse USSR with the Maoist PRC. In the USSR people did not starve accidentally, it was on purpose, which was ordered by stalin to kill the majorly anarchists opposition in Ukraine.
>Economies based on supply-and-demand
Learn something about modern information technology. What do you think IT companys do with your data?
There was a socialist approach in the 70s in Chile to improve „command-based“ economy techically: Cybersyn. Guess what happned...
| >>167003
By the way:
Command-based economy also works on supply and demand. It's just more about central control/regulation instead of a hypothetical individual freedom, which is on one side the problem socialist could not solve while on the other side in pracitice the capitalist freedom is just a phantom due to the system inherent duty to increase profits and a in reality inequal competition.
| >>167771
The 4th industrial or information techologist revolution saved the capitalist illusion of „everybody can make it“ for a while, but it also could be the tool to make non-capitalist economy work. Plus there is a struggle of the non materialistic nature of information and capitalist materialism, which capitalists try to solve with „copyrights“.
| These people aren't protesting fascism, they're protesting racism. Most of them don't even really know what fascism is, they're just using it as a pejorative.
| >>167806
fascism is coorporate totalitarism, militarism and imperialism, which usually goes pretty well along with racism, even thought not necessarily, which probably is what you wanted to say.
Or what to you believe fascism is? Some democratic and humanistic world peace programme by weed smoking hippies?
| >>167739
>In the USSR people did not starve accidentally, it was on purpose, which was ordered by stalin to kill the majorly anarchists opposition in Ukraine.
What is this bullshit? Even during civil war anarchists were a minority in Ukraine. And starvation in USSR happened in many places like Volga region, Kazakhstan, Southern Siberia, not only Ukraine. Starving was a result of stupid soviet collectivization politics, it did not happen on purpose. Though, it's still horrible.
| >>168719
>take all the food from a local population by force
>call all the ones who oppose it kulaks and haul them off to the gulags
>4 million starve to death
>"stupid soviet collectivization politics"
>"not on purpose"
How the hell can you be so blind to one of the most heinous crimes of the century? Stop being a god damn commie apologist for five fucking minutes. You're literally as bad as the neo-nazis who deny the holocaust. Fucking listen to yourself, for god's sake.
| As a communist who opposes Stalinism (aka Trotskyist) I am disgusted by people who defend Soviet Union under Stalin. Stalin was right wing idiot hated by Lenin himself
| >>168719
>>168784
I'm not defending Stalin(ism) (and even sympathize with trotskyists) . I just tried to explain that it was stalinism (which for me is a masked form of fascism) was responsible for most damage on people (beside civil war and the invasion by nazists) and not failed economics. Or how do you explain that ppl for the most time (after stalinism) of the soviet era did not starve while the USSR keep up in science and technology and set the west under huge pressure a long time?
| >>169313
How is this a constructive contribution to the debate?
Or are you just stupid and sad, that the brackets were not used in a way you are used to?
Or did you try to be funny? Then try again because you failed.
| >>168848 The USSR fell behind after the 70's which was inevitably going to happen. How science progresses, well, things are generally spontaneous. While people didn't starve in the European side of things, if things continued the way they did that would inevitably happen. A closed off economy can be very damning as seen for Romania during Communist times. Now that country was near starvation levels when it isolated itself even from the other SIV countries.
| >>169773
>The USSR fell behind after the 70's
And Why? Because in the 60s some strange things happened in the US:
1. The education reforms in reaction of the "sputnik-shock" succeed: The education System allowed higher social mobility
2. The civil rights movement succeed because the government was afraid of oppressed black people becoming communists.
3. the hippies, which were a reaction to the stupid Vietnam war, led to cultural bloom
Without USSR there's no need for this anymore
| >>169773
>A closed off economy can be very damning as seen for Romania during Communist times.
Which has nothing to do with the idea of central-planned economy, which intentionally was meant to be organized democratically and international.
| >>169773
Btw. there i have a interesting anecdote, what i've experienced in germany:
I learned countless jokes from west germans about the old communist east germans having no bananas.
I also saw then an actual recrution video by the german marine, which literally showed that they fight on the ocean to provide banana support in germany.
Have you ever heard about the "banana wars"? Even anti-gdr east-germans are annoyed about this banana jokes and admit that they were not starving.
| >>169773
>that would inevitably happen
thats funny, because this kind of statement usually is criticized when it is about rejecting critique on capitalism.
Also, from the 70s to the 80s western economists were not that sure as they are now afterwards. During the oil Crisis there were serious fears in the US to loose to the soviet Union. That is one reason they went so far in Afghanistan to support (successfully) religious lunatics, which turned out becoming a boomerang on 9/11.
| >>169831
I mostly didn't go hungry even if I had to wait in breadlines, but tropical fruits were uncommon and luxurious even in Moscow, for special occasions for party apparatchiki.
| >>169837
Good, that breadlines are history these days since the victorious capitalism made people all over the world live in wealth and peace...
| >>169858
The only breadlines I see today are ones of bread waiting on me, and that's the same case in just about every country that isn't following the "nationalize everything and give it to the people!" Venezuelan approach.
| >>169885
You only see what you want to see, if you think Venezuela is the only or largest problem in the world, just because you don't like the the label which their government is using. Even in rich countries breadlines are increasing, and btw. right winged assholes use problems that occure there to „argue“ against immigrants. Pls get rid of that cold war red-scare glasses and look onto how the whole globalized capitalist world floats to the dark side of the moon.
| >>169945
No, there are no bread lines in western "capitalist" countries. It's very important to make the distinction between shortages, the failure of the system to supply the people with their needs, forcing them to turn to the black market or to wait on ever-longer lines, and lines for the unfortunate
Nobody is starving on the streets of the US, even the lowliest bum can go get a free lunch from a shelter or scrounge some change for a Big Mac. Can you say the same for Venezuela?
| >>169945
In any case, if you have an idea better than the capitalism you like to shit on, I'd love to hear it, but if you vomit out some nonsense about communism, socialism, "the people owning the means of production" or whatever other garbage, I'm only going to be able to laugh and shake my head in disappointment, since it's obvious that you've learned absolutely nothing from the absolutely unfathomable amount of suffering that those have brought upon its victims.
| >>170086
>it's obvious that you've learned absolutely nothing
what if it's the other way around:
It's obvious that you do understand absolutely nothing.
To change things is never a guarantee that the situation gets better automatically. But it's necessary to change things to improve a situation.
What is wrong about the idea of "the people owning the means of production"?
When it comes to the personal computer it is already there. Just look at all the great FLOSS and CC projects.
| >>170086
Do u have no doubt that ur assumptions about how reality is/was could be wrong? Well, then ur'e what I call a fundamentalist. Sth just needs to be labeled as "communism" and pinned with a red flag with hammer and sickle and you run rampage like a drunk elephant in a porcelain store, blaming everything you don't like to hear for ever on stalin, mao, pol pot etc. It would have be intersting to see how "Cybersyn" in Chile would have turned out, but ppl like u only destroy it.
| >After reading this thread, monarchist laughter can be heard at distance
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| Thousands of anti-fascist protesters on Saturday took to the streets to rally against racism in the eastern city of Macerata, where an Italian man earlier this month opened fire on African migrants, injuring six people.
Up to 30,000 demonstrators marched through the streets of Macerata carrying placards and shouting slogans against rising right-wing extremism. Protesters also gathered in Milan and other cities across Italy.