This thread is permanently archived
Musk versus Roscosmos
| Это риторический вопрос?
| >>135226 Было нетрудно догадаться что я русский(я оп) но типа мне в треде про панику кремля перед 28 говорят "ОЧНИСЬ НЕУЖЕЛИ ТЫ БЛЯТЬ НЕ РУБИШЬ КТО ДВИГЛО ПОСТАВЛЯЕТ АМЕРАМ ,чтоб они людей на орбиту пуляли?Сами мол бишь не могут"ну я хотел триггернуть того дебила чтоб тут с ним спорить
| >>135212
How many people were flying to or from the ISS with the company musk owns (and nothing more)?
| Roscosmos, beyond any doubt. The amount of experience it has is unmatched by any others and the decisions they make in design and problem solving are much deeper than they seem and based on a huge number of factors considered at the same time. Rocket science is not making software with an ide, it is rocket science.
| my bet is on ESA or JAXA
| They both cooperate a lot with Roscosmos. ESA is very promising and always improving in my opinion too.
| >>135464 >>deep decisions.
They lost a rocket because they confused vostochni and baikonur. CONFUSED FUCKING COSMODROMES. and you talk bout what, deep decisions?
| Roscosmos won in against everyone else in sending human into space, even NASA. They did it most and regulary. But beyond that is out of their work anymore these days. It's been years since they sent something out beyond Earth's orbit.
| >>136151 enough of human sending into space, if you want to measure cultural factor - America won by landing on the moon. If talk science than musk won by sending a lot more satellites than Roscosmos. Humans in space now too tiny too unimportant to consider it as achievement. Of course humans in space proved our thoughts bout space are right. So unless someone gonna expand humanity to other planets all cosmonautica is unfinished and unsifficient for proud.
| >>136151
Yet Roscosmos setups and missions are the most reliable and cheapest in cost. This is the most important factor for me. A roscosmos mission rarely gets cancelled because of weather conditions unless there is heavy rain and strong winds. The saying 'russians punch the clouds with a rocket' still holds unchallenged.
| >>136303 >>Most reliable
>> Rocket falls because starter team confused launch site (confused Baikonur with Vostochniy) .Really?reliable?And consider that - dont launching rocket in bad weather is cleverness ,and launching them is reclessness.maybe less rockets gonna fall if they reconsidered importance of wether?
| But they have not, have they.
Whether cleverness or recklessness, we are not talking about human error and as someone else mentioned, if someone was drunk to see launchsite 13 and understand launchsite 31. The heart of the conversation was tech quality and capability. Bringing the 'I am more clever than you' argument here is just as the fox saying the grapes are green and sour so she decided not to eat them.
| I sexually Identify as a meme. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of being uploaded onto the imgur website and linked into the reddit threads. People say to me that a person being a meme is Impossible and I'm fucking retarded but I don't care, I'm beautiful.
| I'm having a computer scientist put my brain into my computer like johnny depp in transendence, equipping me with the dankest of pictures from the internet. From now on I want you guys to call me "Sir Danks-a-lot" and respect my right to meme from above and meme needlessly. If you can't accept me you're a memephobe and need to check your internet privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.
| A good time for you to come by for a few days this weekend if you are still interested in the phone or if you want a new phone and if you have any questions please let me know or if you need anything from my end to get a hold of me on my cell phone at any point in the near world and I would love to help with you guys if I could be of assistance in the future to get a better idea of the time and place of your time to get it to me and I will send it to you tomorrow evening
| >>136322 If we think about tech advantage than Roscosmos has not any reusable sattelites or stages of rockets.And thats why in perspective Musk gonna be much cheaper than Roscosmos in long term . And of course confusing launch sites is unforgievable for company as big as Roscosmos.And consider fact that there are some migration of brains from Russia into civilized countries .Our scientists arent paid much.You reap what you sow .Launches as succesfull as salary of engineer.
| >>136380
When Musk and Co. will have 20+ successful launches AND returned for reuse vehicles, that is when I personally would consider that as an alternative for what is already tried and tested and working and stable. I am already tired of projects awesome in papers and designs that never make it past prototype builds because reality shows them to be spectacular failures. Hint: F-35
| >>136391 musk on the way to prove himself right. But see even in rocket science we need progress and innovations. Roscosmos has very little interest in that.
| Again, rocket science is not programming. You do not expect things to get obsolete in a few years. The need to change things often means you have them broken and not right so the need to change them arises. The less something changes and needs replacement, the better it is and a good effective product already, it was mentioned before.
But I will not argue anymore. You seem to confuse scientific advances with capitalistic methods for selling goods.
| Just because something is usable doesn't mean you should forsake further development. It's people like you that we can never transition from fossil fuels to nuclear power.
| >>136849 techniques to send ppl to MKS isn't changed for 30 years. Don't you think that human space traffic isn't a point in cosmonautica nowadays. Point is satellites and solar space. And we need to develop new reusable things so we could exhaust our planet slower.
| >>136978
While you seem to be content with staying only here, I like the idea of humans going beyond. And they will, in time. There is a lot to learn from human presence in space. That is how we know of the effects of prolonged weightlessness in the human body. Or that some alloys combine differently in weightless conditions to give some supermatsrials.
Thinking there is no point for humans in space is at best shallow and naive.
| And if you think that the lack of reusable rockets is what is exhausting our planet of resources, you are anoied by the flies and ignore the elephant in the room which is people wasting tremendous ammounts of everything in everyday lives calling it the high life. You better look at those who own 3 cars and refute the electric economy and want a sedan car to have a 4000cc engine. Petrol, mind you. Diesel doesn't fit their ego.
| >>137133 Indeed in biological sense there is a lot of sense ,but Do you think space around earth really changed for 30 years we regularly send ppl out there ?Why really go beyond and go to Mars right?where have i heard it?Ah from Musk .But i didnt believe in that populistic statement .Firstly you need to improve to go to mars .But in this point Musk does improvment .Roskosmos?None .They just sent ppl to orbital station and some supplies ,btw Dragon already ressuplied MKS 2 times
| We need to go to Mars before the Yellowstone blows up.
| So what's musk and rocosmos anyway?
| >>137191
Obviously, you are misinformed about many things.
- http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/roscosmos/roscosmos-confirms-2021-test-flight-federation-spacecraft/
- http://www.aerospaceguide.net/spacecraft/federation.html
Don't get distracted by who is the loudest. The scientific way of analysing everything is by observing facts and focusing on what really delivers, not which one makes bigger promises. This is rocket science, not politics.
| Interesting also to point out that for really important stuff, american rockets use russian engines. It is educational to look for info regarding the RD-180 engines.
A standard rocket motor uses a portion of the fuel and oxidizer to drive the high pressure turbo pumps that supply the fuel to the high pressure combustion chamber , this semi burnt fuel /oxidizer is then effectively dumped and pays little part in the total thrust."
| "The Russians figured out how to use this waste propellant and inject it into the combustion chamber so it is then added to the total thrust of the motor . This is a very difficult thing to do and requires very high temperature highly oxidizing resistant metal technology . The Russians must have spent a huge amount of time and resources to achieve this , probably hundreds of motors and testing to get it right , but get it right they did."
| "The main refinement is the one shaft high pressure turbo pump which pumps both the fuel and the oxidizer using a common shaft. This saves a lot of weight and makes the motor more compact. These motors though extremely advanced are relatively low cost in US dollars, it is not worth any American company competing with them. All these refinements add up to a lightweight motor that has a 15% increase in thrust:weight ratio over the competition. In the rocket industry 15% is huge!"
| Science is not an opinion, g/u/rls.
| I show you reality, you show me dreams.
As mentioned before, come back when there is a record of reliable usage of such grandiose things you boast about.
| >>137319 Fact that US buys engines for Russia do not imply that US CANT do that engines. You have poor mathlogic g/u/rl .That only means that it is profitable .We live in capitalist world .Profit -is good ,long time investitions may not be profitable =>it is bad.
| >>137337 And by the way Союз -5 or how was it -russian analog to dragon-avaliable only in 2021 - musks dragon flights 2 times to mks .
| It is reality.
| And dont you think about some trivial stuff like launch costs ?Falcon and Proton lift same 20 tons but proton takes 5 more million dollar per launch .Dont you think it is real date ?
| space X :62
proton :67
| And by the way engine is not a rocket - it is part of a rocket .And rocket science is not only engines.
| But part bout 15 % up for SAme technology is actually awsome - even i russian resident missed it.
| They really missed PR factor and managment .I know that we have good scientist and engineers but not much of good managment.
| Everybody do homework now.
http://m.esa.int/Our_Activities/Human_Spaceflight/Delta_Mission/Soyuz_launch_vehicle_The_most_reliable_means_of_space_travel
| I do not know much about discussion but I know that all russian docking unmaned or crew are full automatic via KURS system and that is also partly true for esa things. All others are grapled by the arm and moved in place mechanically. Auto docking is 1337 skillz no arguing.
| >>137555 we argued bout roscosmos not GREAT USSR ROCKETS. They are by no word great, but it was done in Ussr not in Russia.
| So it is not roscosmos it isUSSR
| >>137893
It has a impact on how you are treaded.
If you change your name from „I try to be better than you“ into „now i'm an asshole too“ you're going to be treated diffrent by others.
| Intelligent people discuss ideas. Normal people discuss events. Stupid people discuss people.
- Sun Tzu
| >>138079
Not very smart, imho. Taking Sun Tzus saying serious, he is stupid according to his own definition.
| >>138154
He always claimed so during all his life. Stop making a fuss for discovering that the sky is blue.
| Two. And when I'm outside I use my phone. In home I use pc. Pretty logical?
| And now my ip changed too. If you know how keen it constant tell me. Bc I don't know.
| >>138696
Playing the simple fool is an old rhetorical trick. Either people like sun zu really believed they were just simple servants to as bigger cause, which is a form of religious fundamentalism, or they just proclaimed to be so while they secretly jerked off for ruling about other people.
| >>139128
Interesting angle to analyse philosophical truths of 2500 years ago by today's worldview. Especially for someone who is not reknown for his fundamentalistic views. And in a time - and place I might add - where the war against fundamentalism reaches such proportions to be election campaign material and worthy of raising flags in house backyards.
This thread is permanently archived
| Who does better nowadays? Musk with innovations or roscosmos with falling rockets?